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they find a gigantic spider, all eight of it’s eyes filled with tears. As soon as they see it, the spider speaks in their own speech! “My babies, he stole all my babies. The nasty wizard took my egg sac for his potion.”
Introducing herself as Ariadne, the spider will explain with many gestures of her eight legs how a Necromancer has stolen her egg sac to make his new potion. If asked how she can speak she will admit to eating a lesser Mage years ago and drinking one of his potions. Ariadne will explain that a magical circle around the mage’s house prevents her going near it, and promise a large reward if the PC’s will rescue her “babies”.
Assuming the PC’s decide to help her, they must find a way to cross the circle.If a mage is in the party he/she may be able to spellcast a way through. It might be possible to trick a way through-or the undead skelitons guarding the area can be destroyed and the PC’s can cross the circle by walking over the bones. If the Necromancer is defeated and the egg sac returned, the spider will reward the PC’s with several gold coins taken from her human prey over the years, and one magical item (chosen by the GM.)
Because giant spiders are allways thought of as evil killing machines I decided to make up a plot with one that was different.
October 9, 2004, 17:43
The mage could be using the sacs to make potions, but what are the potions for? To cure a certain disease which is currently ravaging the pauper population of a nearby village? This adds a new dimension of moral choice. Further developments could include:
* The spider turns out to have damaged ovaries. The egg sacs in question are her only chance to bear young. Should the PCs return the eggs to her and seek out another spider from whom to steal eggs?
* The mage intends to sell the healing potion to the paupers to make as much money out of them as he can. Perhaps the PCs should ambush him and steal the potion, to distribute it freely. But if something went wrong they could incur the bad press of being "the bandits who steal medicine from the poor".
* Perhaps the spider actually wants the egg sacs back for a different reason. She wishes to sacrifice her unborn children to a dark and evil spider god. Though this conflicts with your basic premise of spiders not always being evil it would present an interesting pro-choice/pro-life dilemma.
The idea of rewarding PCs with money and magical items would seem a little out of place here. I think it's another stereotype that should be broken: that a player can only be rewarded with material game artefacts. Perhaps a more interesting proposition is for the mage to attempt bribing the PCs with a significantly powerful magical item. They would gain the material advantage (for now) but a cunning and thoughtful GM would bring their corruption back against them in future adventures.
The moral questions which could be exploited in this plot are varied and topical, and I wouldn't be surprised if your players became quite heated when discussing the "right" course of action.
ephe!
October 10, 2004, 7:00
The double cross could be there, maybe she sold her eggs to the bad necromancer.
Even if it is a double cross, let the spider have a "mcguffin" that the players need. That is her payment to them for help.
October 11, 2004, 12:49
October 12, 2004, 2:44
October 19, 2004, 19:29
October 20, 2004, 2:17
A goal that should be pursued is to make creatures like orcs, goblins, and yes, even big friggin spiders more than lists of stats to slaughter.
And yes, girls DO play 'this' game... have seen some play (and enjoy it) myself. And cut back on the vulgarity, will you? Thanks!
October 20, 2004, 14:49
As for female gamers, since I have started playing, the majority of my gamers have been female. I dont have much experience running hack and slash, shoot 'em ups, but I do have alot in running character interaction and development, plot twists and other such thematic devices. Plus I really know how to stock the various shops and stores.
My wife is a regular gamer, and it is only the demands of being a full time college student that keeps her from being a resident here at the citadel. As for Vulgarity, we all have to remember the words of George Carlin. sarcasmThe F word is a versatile word, a noun, a verb, and adjective, a conjoining phrase. Say it loud, say it proud and show people just how intelligent you are. /sarcasm
October 21, 2004, 3:45
October 21, 2004, 22:09
October 21, 2004, 22:12
October 21, 2004, 22:17
October 21, 2004, 22:59
October 22, 2004, 2:48
By the way, how many people did the adventurers kill? Do they admit THAT? Openly? And still, someone trusts them. And no, not all of those will have been evil - say, soldiers of a neighboring country... while they threaten them, they are not evil, just fighting for what they see as right. Will the players admit killing orcs? Yes, they will. But orcs are people too. Okay, warriors that oppose you MAY be killed freely. But did the players kill even one orc kid or unarmed female? If so, then they are no better than the spider. The spider killed for food. Are all PCs vegetarians? Hardly so.
My focus was to show that the shape does not matter - a human/elf/halfling might have more reasons to cheat the PCs than a spider.
and yes, Zucrous, if the players blow up a plot just to spite me, okay, I will move on, and they will have missed a plot. Now, if the only thing that suffered was the spider, the repercussions will be non-existent.
But at other times, action, or even inactivity, will bring consequences to them. And they HAVE to deal with those.
Is a damsel in distress not an old cheezy plot? SO, they ignore her to spite me. Okay. Now, she dies. Fine, a dead chick, they say. Then, they come across the knight who happens to be her father, and, while he was too far away to help himself, he saw that they could have and did not. They've gained one enemy. See?
Say the damsel was meant to be a virgin sacrifice. So if they didn't save her, they have to deal with whatever she was sacrificed to, say a demon intent on ripping their buttocks open.
Easy.
My players are educated so far, that they will talk - even to their enemies. Makes for a richer roleplay.
October 22, 2004, 17:33
But I'd have to say that Echo is the winner in this, as of yet.
October 22, 2004, 18:16
October 22, 2004, 18:19
Another thing killing somthing just because its evil does not make much sense to an expierienced gamer. While yes the orcs in the bar are undoubtably evil just because they are doesnt mean you attack them. See and this is where we go into the area that is tricky, to some killing orcs might be a bad thing, like for the orcs example. But many who dispise orcs would say that you are a hero. Its all from a certain point of veiw. See a damsel in distress makes a great plot if by some chance the damsel is killed by a vampire and comes back to kill you. see a simple plot can be made into a wonderful plot. by the way have you only played as good characters or DMed groups of good characters, cuz I have played in a campaign woth all evil people and damn was that fun, just killing stuff because you can is great.
Archon Lord Zucrous Shadowhelm "the Reaper of Souls" Supreme Dark Lord of the Kabal of the Severed Soul
October 22, 2004, 18:42
Another thing killing somthing just because its evil does not make much sense to an expierienced gamer. While yes the orcs in the bar are undoubtably evil just because they are doesnt mean you attack them. See and this is where we go into the area that is tricky, to some killing orcs might be a bad thing, like for the orcs example. But many who dispise orcs would say that you are a hero. Its all from a certain point of veiw. See a damsel in distress makes a great plot if by some chance the damsel is killed by a vampire and comes back to kill you. see a simple plot can be made into a wonderful plot. by the way have you only played as good characters or DMed groups of good characters, cuz I have played in a campaign woth all evil people and damn was that fun, just killing stuff because you can is great.
Archon Lord Zucrous Shadowhelm "the Reaper of Souls" Supreme Dark Lord of the Kabal of the Severed Soul
October 22, 2004, 18:42
October 23, 2004, 3:12
Also, being 'evil' (what an ambiguous term!) does not mean you maim or kill for fun... that is being sadistic. You can be selfish and greedy, but still eschew harming someone physically. Alignment is a straitjacket. Yes, orcs may be brutal, and aggressive, but that is what they see as a 'good' way of life - be strong, grab what you can (e.g. deserve) and defend yourself and your kids (and kids to be) from all enemies (mostly by ripping off vital parts). But they flare up on a palladin's 'radar' the same as a demon intent on destruction of all mankind. Weird.
Currently, I DM for a group of less-than-perfect characters - a dark elf sorcerer, a living vampire, a fallen palladin and a partially demonic noble. But I don't pigeon-hole them into being evil. They're real people, and don't see themselves as evil - the sorcerer may be actually nice when it does not cost him anything...he will aid other group members because in turn, they aid him, but if the situation becomes critical, he will not risk his life for others. Is he evil? No, he just considers himself more valuable than others... The vampire - yes, he drinks blood. He tries not to kill when he does so. He tries to obey the law when it is not imperative to ignore it. Because he is paranoid, he often does alienate people. And yes, he wants to see his enemies dead and does not forgive. Ever. Is he evil? No. He's just himself in a hostile world. Even though anyone may consider him a monster. The palladin had his reasons to fall - unreasonable love it might have been, and his failure caused the deaths of many of his family members... he knows what he has done wrong, and sworn revenge upon those who led him into that ituation. He's not kind. He will honor his word to the letter, not more, not less. He will kill without hesitation if it seems right at the moment. To some, he might appear as a villain. Yet he's but a man who was wronged by life, imprisoned for a dozen years, and with a score to settle.
And the semi-demonic noble? Truly a horrid creature if unmasked, yet caring for the subjects, and loved ones, most of all siblings and and father, trying to uphold the honor of her house. Okay, now it seems quite incompatible with these 'ideals' that she killed repeatedly to feed the child she had with a true demon. Is it so? A truly evil deed, but she's nothing worse than a tigress slaying to feed her young - if her loved child needs the flesh of sentients, wouldn't it be cruel to deny it food? Especially when she chooses enemies of the state, bandits and the cruel as prey? This is actully noble! But most knights would vomit seeing her or her daughter feeding.
Now, would you support a knight? A less-than-perfect knight? A knight who was tricked into failing his ideals? One who was tricked and caused great grief in the process?
Would you rather support a vampire noble treating his subjects well, or a human noble who lets the peasants starve? A spider-monster who protects a village or the church of a god who claims to be good, but does not give a damn about that hamlet?
Would you aid a lady whose only failing is a beast she cannot always contain, or one who does lesser evil, but on purpose?
Questions, questions...
October 18, 2006, 13:14
3 for an _ok_ plot. +.5 for the great moral discussion it lit off!
Now, just because a spider is a big, evil, man-eating beast, does not mean the PCs' can't do business with it. Business is business after all! :)
The only leverage the spider has is that it knows where the evil mage is, and evil mages are Always worth killing :)
So there could be some negotiation. And then when they are done, then they kill the spider.
November 24, 2006, 7:52
April 11, 2012, 9:49
I know this is an old one but it was in my "unvoted" list.
An ok idea. I don't really like the resulting "argument"
It has potential.