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Therafter / Wesley Sandoz
« Last post by Doc West on January 27, 2015, 08:56:27 AM »
(GM feel free to fill in the stuff I'm missing, the Thereafter V document was a little thin on how to pick proficiency's etc.)

Name: Wesley Sandoz
Race: Normal Human
Class: Fighter 3
Age: 79
Height: 6' 4""
Weight: 225 lbs

Religion: Atheist

Ability Scores:

STR 10
DEX 14  +
CON 12   +
INT 16   +
WIS 15   +
CHA 12

HP: ?

AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 10 (+0 armor +5 dex )

Class Abilities:

Fighting Style

Firearms - You gain +2 to all roles you make with firearms.
2nd Wind - On your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain 1d10 + fighter level Secondary HP (Or 1 Primary HP).
      Need to rest before can be used again.
Action Surge - Gain 1 additional bonus action, reset on rest.
Martial Archtype - ?. 


Advanced Medicine,

All Armor, Shields
Simple Weapons,Martial Weapons,Firearms

Athletics, Survival

Background (Wasteland Doctor)

Saving Throws:

Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
   pistol whip +2 (1d4/20) or rifle butt +2 (1d6/20)

  LeMat Revolver .44 Magnum 9/9
   Lemat secondary barrel- .60 caliber shotgun shell loaded with flechettes 1/1


Ebony sword Cane



Doctor Wesley Sandoz, an elderly man who practiced medicine as part of a trade caravan for almost 30 years, having been a wandering doctor for several years before joining up with Rodney Hanson. He often goes by the nick name Doc West, and is known to favor outdated suits and trench coats, and often speaks in a direct manner with a faint English accent.

Over the years he has learned a side arm is every bit as useful as a scalpel when traveling the wasteland, not just for protection, but administering mercy to those whose suffering he cannot alleviate should they wish it. To this end he carries an old Le-mat Revolver, a relic he salvaged from a museum during his youth. As old age catches up with him he has also taken to carrying an ebony sword cane, both to assist in his mobility and an emergency defense.

Beyond his doctoring skills he has also found over the years to be in the unfortunate position of hearing many a last request from gravely injured people, and seen enough injustice that he can no longer shy away from aiding those in need and righting wrongs when he find himself confronted with evil or malice. This as earned him the less popular nick name of "The Judge" by those patients whom he has taken upon himself to avenge.

Having been married a few decades before and raised a daughter of his own he has former experience with children and as a family man, his wife having passed on 8 years past from a fire he has an understanding of the random dangers of life and how precious it is.

Some what genteel he never draws his side arm without full intent of using it, and never turns his back on people in need or abandons those he calls friend. Having left the company of "Rodney's Riders" after a outbreak of dysentery in a small town compelled him to remain behind, he now is travelling the waste looking for a chance to make the world a bit of a brighter place in his wake than it was before his arrival.
Therafter / Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion
« Last post by valadaar on January 27, 2015, 07:38:58 AM »
Understood :) It does that.
Therafter / Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion
« Last post by Lady Wolf on January 27, 2015, 07:27:24 AM »
Yes, new character will be inbound via PM shortly, been dealing with some stuff IRL that had to take priority.
Cavern of Inane Natter / Re: Theoretical vrs experimental
« Last post by Aramax on January 27, 2015, 06:32:40 AM »
When I started this thread I had no idea of the sparks it would ignite. I thought I was making a simple statement of an observation.Then I came to what I thought was the heart of the matter with my question"What do you want this site to be?" but Strolen has given me the true incite into this discussion.

What do you DESERVE from this site?

First off you deserve Axel and myself. We feel like outsiders but we have plugged away. We are both very creative peeps that need to get OVER our feelings of being an outsider.You deserve our best efforts and in my case a much greater attention to my grammar and spelling.Also your longer works that I have shunned deserve consideration.

You deserve a wider audience for your efforts. The love and sweat of an AVERAGE sub here needs to be seen and commented on wider and with great detail. On this I have no answer, other than to say what we got now is broken, in that it is not really attracting new blood.

You deserve slow and careful change. No need to rush to judgement , tiny steps toward correcting our 'inbreeding'. Debate and descussion and argument over how best to address the core problems. Baby steps.

Mostly you deserve a preservation of the core of what makes this site as great as it is. Whatever changes that need to be made to bring fresh ideas and commenters  into OUR(proud to use that word) ranks must preserve the status quo also.
Cavern of Inane Natter / Re: Theoretical vrs experimental
« Last post by Scrasamax on January 27, 2015, 12:30:26 AM »

Scras, and I still can’t believe he does this, deletes his low scoring posts. 

When I see that one of my submissions has scored poorly, I look at it, and I try to understand why it failed, why what I saw in my mind didn't translate into message, or I see that the idea I had simply was lacking merit.

Then, as it clings to the edge of the crevasse, feet dangling over the yawning abyss, I look at it, and push it over.

Cavern of Inane Natter / Re: Theoretical vrs experimental
« Last post by axlerowes on January 26, 2015, 11:23:19 PM »
...Strolenites admit that they are discouraged from submitting only their best. Hell, I have posted for awhile because I am intimidated by the results. I just want to write sometimes but then there is that doubt that creeps in. Is it good enough? Will they like it? And then I stall....and still a Weaver Guild initiate and not a full member.

I can't even imagine the awesome ideas we are missing out on because of this self-imposed barrier that we have created.

That cuts to the core the question at hand. 

I think 100 word and Oekaki are part time solutions to this problem. 

But the bar is going to get raised on content, and as that gets raised to will the depth and scope of the comments.

Don't get me wrong I am still having fun on the site, but I think Aramax made an interesting observation, which was articulated well by Strolen.  It just is what it is,
Cavern of Inane Natter / Re: Theoretical vrs experimental
« Last post by Moonlake on January 26, 2015, 07:50:53 PM »
Wow, Strolen, there are probably a lot to pick out from your post but I'll concentrate on one bit that struck a chord with me somewhat (or did once), which is this idea that people sometimes do not appreciate too close scrutiny at particular aspects of their subs. Most gamers complain about being picked on for spelling and grammar whereas for me, sometimes, I have in-work ideas that are complete but could still be worked on that I got sick of and just chugged out as a sub, especially for my Dragon Empire setting. I remembered I used to get annoyed that people give me a 3 for it stating the reason being that it's short on particular content (yes, as I mentioned before, I'm one of the ones on the inflated score line as you call it, your newbie sub only partly cured me of it). Then I almost wished that I had created a new freetext for these subs called "not for public consumption" or something like that. But then I just got over it.

But like you said, I don't think any of the problems identified in this thread could be removed short of removing the whole voting system but to me, that's just a bit extreme. Even then, the harsh commenting is likely still here to stay unless you want to completely purge old-timers that some of us just love as both contributor and commenter which is again a preposterous idea. Speaking of this, I suddenly have an idea but not sure about feasibility: can we have an additional drop-down on the submission page regarding commenting: thinking that you can select from options of most critical reader welcomed, no picking on spelling and grammar, background info for my world, just a quickie etc.
Cavern of Inane Natter / Re: Theoretical vrs experimental
« Last post by Strolen on January 26, 2015, 07:01:32 PM »
Gird your loins.

TLDR: Lots of words that may not help or answer anything. The answer is 42.

Honestly, I see an inability to take criticism as the #1 cause of newbies not sticking around, rather than the stats taboo. And while axle waxes eloquent about the harshness of our standards, I see them as a plus, since I have personally benefited from them.

I know the guy that is involved a little in this site so will throw in a couple cents and you can take it for what it is worth. I tend to get long winded when I start but will try and stop myself when I feel it digressing too much but no promises. I type fast so I get out of control.

First and foremost, this is definitely a community driven site and all features were requested or discussed before being implemented. Some work, others don't. The next version is going to do A LOT of trimming of features that seemed like a good idea but didn't turn out so well...or they will be reincarnated into something new and, again, we will see if we like them. Stubs...ugh. Yes, will keep them as they apparently serve a purpose to somebody. ;)

So back in WW Nam when I put this site together I played Palladium as my game of choice. AD&D's AC systems is just plain stupid to me...booooring. I want to roll to defend d**nit. CRIT FAIL...YEAH! Anyway, that isn't what drove the no stats rule. I didn't build the site to share character stats, there were a thousand sites like that and all useless, following the formal conventions of whatever game they were making the character for. Dry, mechanical, without soul...filling out blocks so you could correctly roll the dice. When I found a cool idea I wanted to use, all I took was the idea and left the stats...always. The other site I liked organized all their ideas into game systems and it sucked trying to find anything useful. The stats were usually crap and the ideas were all over the place. Stupid organization system. So I wanted to make my site with no stats and organized by what a GM would need when putting together a game. Remember, this is back in 1996 when I designed the site so tags weren't even a thing yet except on AOL. Just be happy I dumped the animated unicorn gifs (try the konami code on the main site if you need that though). Once I lost my gaming group, I missed the ideas.  (PS manfred is the oldest user by far, he contacted me by email when the site was on version 0.0012 Alpha)

Take a look at any category and sort it by oldest first. That is the simplest of goals and my initial vision. Plenty of 3 submissions there...now, probably 2s and maybe even 1s. They are some crap, I will admit...but if you look past it at the central idea, there is something there. A quick idea that anybody can take and make their own. That was my vision and goal and how it was built. Sharing of all kind of ideas that people can pick up and place in their own game. I stand by the mantra that most GMs are creative and smart and if you give them idea, they can make up some stats with ease in whatever system they want. Even if you provided stats, they are usually changed and modified to work where they are used by the GM to fit their requirements so even more pointless. Stats really serve no purpose in my vision of the Citadel. It is about the idea, thought, usefulness of the post. Give me that core idea and stats will almost create themselves...and be completely different for every GM.

Many may know that I am a fan of your medium size sub that gives you all the data you need and then gets out of your way. However, some longer posts with the glorious prose and descriptive fiction is brilliant and a joy to read. But I will be the first to admit that long post gives me pause. I am of the internet, short attention span, bite size pieces personality...and I am somewhat embarrassed to admit it here now. But I am. Shorter posts will get more of my attention than longer....because I am all about a quick read and seeing the core idea. GIMME! I am nervous to write that because I don't want to offend some folks, but each person enjoys something different and this site definitely encourages creativity above all. I probably wouldn't even read the entire post I am writing...well, maybe, as I would be curious, but generally....tooooooo long!! And sorry about that. :)

But we can argue about stats and prose all day....what it boils down to is people getting too critical with their comments and/or authors taking those criticisms too seriously. It is all about life experience and perspective and we can never predict that somebody will take our writing as intended.

So we debated about removing the voting, but then the site loses the core it was created on. Debated on making it a "like" button, but the voting seems to be central. A thousand other arguments could be made for all ways of doing it and I would agree with most of them. But good or bad, voting will stay. Can't fix it and it is not the same without it.

Voting itself. Compare it to job performance evaluations. Every single rating system, ever, will become inflated. Seems to be human nature. A 3 submission is perfect in my mind, but people are disappointed with it. In an inflated system a 3 is bad and a 2 and 1 are just painful and unacceptable. Rarely will somebody earn a 2...except dark elf assassins with scimitars, but that is another issue.

So we incorrectly believe that 4s and 5s are what we should strive for. And, occasionally, commenters give criticism to "help" improve the post on this inflated scale instead of just accepting it. Generally, we are VERY good at not doing this, but most folks leaving the site stems from a miscommunication of some sort, either interpretation or expression. Sometimes people really don't get along but that is a bit rarer.

Granted, some folks want the harsh criticism, and that is fine. Probably need a feature to request that specifically so commenters know when a hard edit would be appreciated. Or when I want mine grammer corectid. Deal with teh mispellings sometimes and comment on the idea. Shouldn't be down voting a post because they spelled something wrong... (ok, digressing there)

I want positive remarks on the core idea, a vote based on that, and the understanding that 3 is perfectly good. Getting all those together is very difficult and, based on each individual, there will always be interpretation issues, conflict and confusion when you allow comments and voting...but that is the heart of the system.

Which brings me back to the quote above which I think brings in the two key pieces that make the Citadel the way it currently is.

-I have an idea.
-Spend a little bit putting it together.
-Here it is.
-Then I get low votes (3s and 3.5s which are actually great votes) and suggestions of what I should do better.

Based on the misinterpretation (or correct interpretation of a more critical comment):
-Do I take it personal and argue? I just wanted to share an idea?
-Do I disagree, this is the way I wanted it?
-Do I take my ball and go home because I don't need to deal with this?
-Do I sit and spend hours and make it more word pretty with a submission I just wanted to quickly share just to be "accepted?"
-Do I think, incorrectly, that 3s mean my idea is crappy so I am too embarrassed to stay around?

Are any of those thoughts legit? Depends on the person and interpretation.

Submitting a post here for the first time is intimidating. We are not newbie friendly. The site is huge and unwieldy. Things are confusing and not set up in a very easy way to understand. There are a lot of undocumented features that not even Strolenites know how to use. Submissions are of an extremely high quality to the point where they are almost short stories instead of gaming ideas. There are great ideas and most are great fiction as well. I don't want to discourage that because it is frick'n awesome, but how do we make it so the more mundane and normal submissions are more accepted?

This does not make us very newbie friendly. It is actually very daunting. So much so that even Strolenites admit that they are discouraged from submitting only their best. Hell, I have posted for awhile because I am intimidated by the results. I just want to write sometimes but then there is that doubt that creeps in. Is it good enough? Will they like it? And then I stall....and still a Weaver Guild initiate and not a full member.

I can't even imagine the awesome ideas we are missing out on because of this self-imposed barrier that we have created.

Is there a point to all this rambling? I doubt it. If you find something let me know. There is an overall philosophy in the site that I have retained since I built it. It is somewhat contained in the words above if you can decipher it. Use Ra if you need some help with that.

Do I want more people to visit, comment and post?
HELL YES! You guys are awesome and deserve a huge community sharing and commenting!

Do I have a plan to try and work towards that goal?
d**n straight I do. I have a hundred pages of notes and hundreds of dollars in books to help try and get us to the next level. It will take this year to get it there though.

Question is, will anybody still be around to see it?
 :read: :poet: :dizzy: :ahh:
Cavern of Inane Natter / Re: Theoretical vrs experimental
« Last post by MysticMoon on January 26, 2015, 06:12:26 PM »
One more thing about Aramax's post, I have always felt like a square peg here as well, always.  I am not sure I feel comfortable using the Citadel we, like others do.  But perhaps this is just how everybody feels.

I've heard this from a few others as well. I felt that way for a time, but I dealt with it the same way I do many other situations: I threw myself into the middle of it all until I became acclimated. After that, it was smoother sailing. I still have moments, of course, where I say or do stuff that I feel goes *whoosh!* but I expect everyone else does that once in awhile.
Cavern of Inane Natter / Re: Theoretical vrs experimental
« Last post by Moonlake on January 26, 2015, 05:42:57 PM »
One more thing about Aramax's post, I have always felt like a square peg here as well, always.  I am not sure I feel comfortable using the Citadel we, like others do.  But perhaps this is just how everybody feels.

Oddly enough, I should be feeling like a square peg here based on my non-gamer status but never felt that way. Axle, I had assumed that you are pretty like me on this. Not sure what exactly are you not comfortable with using the Citadel for besides the fact that sometimes your longer work of fiction is under-read but that goes for anyone that writes work of length here. The fact that selected Strolenatis are up to reading and commenting on subs past a certain length is a recurring rage that Strolen old-timers have. Personally, I love reading work of length (that's why I tend to read epic fantasy that naturally run in trilogies or quintets) but I just have an aversion to reading work of length on the Citadel or on the PC.
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