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Author Topic: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods  (Read 10416 times)

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Offline MysticMoon

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2013, 07:35:16 AM »
A lot of the systems I've looked at treat it quite differently. Rather than have alignments which all characters must select, any strong moral/immoral stance which affects how the character is played is chosen as some kind of disadvantage/trait/weakness. This might provide extra feats/advantages/positive traits/experience points in order to offset greater power with restrictions. I am much more a fan of this approach.

For example, a Cavalier might take a disadvantage of "code of honor" which prevents him from doing things like attacking unarmed opponents. This gives him a few extra points which he can put into combat skills, horsemanship, etc.
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Offline Gossamer

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2013, 07:43:52 AM »
A lot of the systems I've looked at treat it quite differently. Rather than have alignments which all characters must select, any strong moral/immoral stance which affects how the character is played is chosen as some kind of disadvantage/trait/weakness. This might provide extra feats/advantages/positive traits/experience points in order to offset greater power with restrictions. I am much more a fan of this approach.

For example, a Cavalier might take a disadvantage of "code of honor" which prevents him from doing things like attacking unarmed opponents. This gives him a few extra points which he can put into combat skills, horsemanship, etc.

You're thinking about GURPS?
By the way, what does IIRC stand for?
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Offline MysticMoon

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2013, 07:45:24 AM »
GURPS is one such system but there are many others. Savage Worlds, Cortex, D6 variants, to name a few.

IIRC - if I recall correctly.
Chosen of Aktagarti – Divine Synod Guild – Level 1
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Offline Gossamer

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2013, 08:31:38 AM »
Here it is, my first post. That somewhat pertains to this discussion, regarding empathy. Or how you want to look at it...
http://strolen.com/viewing/But_theyre_only_minions
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Offline young0ne2

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2013, 09:43:36 AM »
One of the ways that "We" have tried to aleave this issue of Alignment in my games has come down to the DM choosing it for you, in the sense that the DM would put every at Neutral ( unless a class, such as paladin, said other wise) and then we would make the players Write a back story about their lives to date in the game. The DM would then adjust the alignment as they saw fit for your character.

THEN as we played, at the end of each game session the DM would look at your actions and intentions that you showed during the game and adjust your alignment accordingly ~OR~ give a tally mark in a direction of an alignment.
~~~> Example: if you were a "NG" person and in the game you killed a few animals for entertainment, nothing else, just because you were bored, you might get a mark in Neutral, if that character tourchered said animals in the process, a mark in Evil.
Then once you got so many marks in one area ( like 5-10) your alignment would shift accordingly.

It's a nice way to make your players really think about their actions and the bigger picture. If you have a PC who's dream is to join The Order of Insert-every-day-good-god-here and they failed the test because their actions didnt reflect what the church looked for in their members, it would not only give the DM some more Storyline stuff, but it also gives the PC some drive to achieve their goal.

We did this once before in a small, 3 person game, and it worked pritty well. Not saying this is for everyone, or that your PC's are going to like it, their was one time we had some one about have a B#$% Fit because they felt they met the requirement to join an organisation ( in this case, a perstige class of some church) and the DM had to recall all the actions, good and bad, that worked for and against the PC.
It worked out in the end, but its a bit more work on the DM's part.

Offline Cheka Man

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2013, 11:21:11 PM »
In rl, few are totally evil. There are for example some very dangerous gangs that to others are definately Evil, but who will risk their lives for each other which could be seen as a Good Trait. Detect Heretic or Detect Lawbreaker would be better then Detect Evil.

Offline young0ne2

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2013, 08:48:01 AM »
i'll go with a quote here that some one said to me once... actually its more like a short story:

Guard: " Excuse me sir ( talking to a gnome) could you come with me for a minute, we have some questions for you."
Gnome:"... but i havent done anything. Infact this is the 1st time i have ever been to your humble little city."
Guard: " Be that as it may sir, i still need to ask you some questions"
Gnome: " But i havent done anything wrong! I have Broken No Laws of your city!"
GUard: " SIR, Please Stop Making a S..."
Gnome: " NO, I Will NOT come with you! No Law Has Been Broken, i have done NO ILL WILL TO ANY ONE!, Your Just Being Racest against My people!!"

Guard:"sigh*...( now their are 4 guards) Sir, The Key Stone of the archway you are standing underneath has a Detect Unlawful spell on it. Now i am not saying you have done anything wrong, but being that this is your "1st" visit, and your rating is in the Bottom 10%, were going to need either Ask you some questions or arrest you. Which will it be?"

Gnome:... "Can i get a cup of tea atleast?"
Guard: "yes"
Gnome: "Okay.... ask away."

Offline Darkstand

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2013, 01:27:54 PM »
This is sort of a old topic, but I'll put this here anyway.
I, like a lot of people, took issue with alignment in D&D and other games that used it, but it is hard to remove without messing up concepts like the paladin.
My answer was that Good and Evil did exist, but only as extraplanar influences. Angels and Demons - and those who consorted with them or drew power from them - would detect as Good/Evil, but normal people would not. In this version, the Tyrant who rules with a iron fist is still neutral, as is the leader of the local (but non-religious) orphanage.
For those who worship gods, their god can have a impact on how they detect, if they have enough devotion, or if they have been given boons.

It should be noted that;
 A) the difference between the originals (Demons, Angels) and those that are merely touched, should be preserved. There should be a sort of power level of how strong a person detects.
 B) Detecting as Good or Evil does not mean the person is. A Wizard who deals with Demons and Devils will read as Evil, even though he could be a ardent crusader of righteousness... or at least trying to make a difference by any means he can. On the other hand, these influences are not merely cosmetic, either. Such a wizard would find himself tempted to use ever more violent methods, ever more dark magic in his quest. If one is not careful, he could be lost to the darkness very quickly.
Depending on how you play it, it could be possible to read as both good and evil at the same time
This all goes again for LAW vs CHAOS
Insanity is the sane response to an insane world.

Offline young0ne2

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Re: D&D Alignements and Cruel Gods
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2013, 01:41:14 PM »
Their was a game we played once where the DM put the Alignments on a grid, and the 9 alignments were placed thusly.

What he did was give us the number of points ( or rather coordinates) on His map and Put a Dot in that location( we made a bigger one and used tacks later). And then her colored it according to the Alignments. So if you were True Neutral for example, you would start at (0,0) If you were Lawful Good, you would start at (10,10)

As we went through the game he would keep track of the actions we took through out the game and at the end of it would +/- a number from your starting location. ( if a true neutral person did something particularly good that day, his new position on the grid might be (0,1))

Essentually the idea was to show that we were still within our alignment even if we did a good/bad/chaotic/lawful deed every once in a while, if we started to go too far in one direction than our alignment would change accordingly.

It worked, kept the PC's in check ( though their was a point and time where we were doing a "boss" fight and the Pc's pushed their alignments to the edges by using spells and tactics to win the battle that were outside their alignment.)