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Author Topic: Question on the whole no stats thing?  (Read 5351 times)

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Offline Aramax

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Question on the whole no stats thing?
« on: February 01, 2015, 11:50:12 AM »
Ok I saw a couple of val's subs with stats, I'm working on another 30 for magic weapons.could I put in at the very end?


D&D Stats

minor=+1
above average= +2
Moderate=+3
etc.
?????????
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Offline Dozus

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2015, 11:54:53 AM »
Ask yourself this: does the strength of the sub rest on the words, or the stats? If the former, the stats probably don't add anything of quality (at least not for me). If the latter, the sub needs reconsideration.
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Offline Ancient Gamer

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2015, 12:18:20 PM »
Dozus speaks with wisdom, though I have to add:

While I am running a game, and have printed out my notes from the citadel, it sometimes sucks that stats are not present as I need them in the game.

I always end up writing down stats with a pen, but still.
Sometimes stats have a purpose.
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Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2015, 12:26:38 PM »
What I have envisioned for the sub they are not necessary, but I think it would provide some clarity, what if I put it in either the comments or as an idea?
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Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2015, 01:17:10 PM »
Let me be very clear here, I am not looking to push boundaries here. I saw val used some stats and I just want a clarification on exactly what is proper.
all I want to do is put a short table on the end. There also are a little system neutral stats that I'm 90% sure are ok. First consideration is WHAT IS CORRECT
SUBMISSION RULES!
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Offline Chaosmark

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2015, 01:26:54 PM »
First consideration is WHAT IS CORRECT SUBMISSION RULES!

There are no formal rules barring submissions from having stats. We just tend to dislike them as a community, because most of the time when people are using stats, they're using them as the core of the submission, not as something to accentuate and help. I think we sometimes go overboard on the "no stats" thing, personally. However, the fact is that if you include stats, you're going to probably get voted down slightly, simply because of voter preferences.

If you're willing to live with that, by all means, include stats in your submission. If you're not, one possible way to skirt the issue is to put the stats in a stub, and link that to the main submission.

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Offline axlerowes

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2015, 01:33:03 PM »
@ Chaosmark:  Amen, thank you for putting it so clearly

@Max Added stats to my NPCs

Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2015, 01:46:55 PM »
First consideration is WHAT IS CORRECT SUBMISSION RULES!

There are no formal rules barring submissions from having stats. We just tend to dislike them as a community, because most of the time when people are using stats, they're using them as the core of the submission, not as something to accentuate and help. I think we sometimes go overboard on the "no stats" thing, personally. However, the fact is that if you include stats, you're going to probably get voted down slightly, simply because of voter preferences.

If you're willing to live with that, by all means, include stats in your submission. If you're not, one possible way to skirt the issue is to put the stats in a stub, and link that to the main submission.
Thank you for clearing this up for me. I will keep them to the absolute minimum to not offend and I think I will put them in an idea after the main body of the sub. The system neutral stats will be in the body though. The weapons themselves are kind of average its the fluff/crunch around them that should be appealing
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Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2015, 02:23:27 PM »
I thought some more on this and I think the way to go with this is to put them in an idea and put a small disclaimer in the summery,to advise ignoring the idea if the reader so desires.also gives them the option of avoiding the whole thing altogether if they feel very strongly about this. This is really causing me to think"Wow. the rest of the sub needs to be very strong to avoid any problems". Its going to be a while till it sees the light of day.
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Offline Dozus

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2015, 02:30:44 PM »
That seems a fine solution. I might also suggest adding a stat listing on as part of the Ideas listing of the sub, so it's easy to find but separate enough from the actual sub.
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Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2015, 02:39:57 PM »
That seems a fine solution. I might also suggest adding a stat listing on as part of the Ideas listing of the sub, so it's easy to find but separate enough from the actual sub.
Actually that's what I meant, glad you found my idea acceptable, I will not abuse this and will make my disclaimer VERY clear
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Offline Longspeak

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2015, 04:46:27 PM »
Personally, I dislike stats in place of descriptions. I don't want to read "Groguk the Mighty has Str 18." I want to read "Groguk the Mighty is among the strongest of warriors, known across the land for his feats of strength." I don't want to read "this is a +1 sword." I want to read "The minor enchantment on this blade provides a modest edge in combat." Or for magic items, I hate the old D&D assembly line feel. Each item should be unique and epic.

That said if someone came here and they only played - for example - Pathfinder, and they only cared about Pathfinder, they should include their stats if they think those stats are important. They should just do so knowing they reduce the utility for others.

Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2015, 05:19:42 PM »
Personally, I dislike stats in place of descriptions. I don't want to read "Groguk the Mighty has Str 18." I want to read "Groguk the Mighty is among the strongest of warriors, known across the land for his feats of strength." I don't want to read "this is a +1 sword." I want to read "The minor enchantment on this blade provides a modest edge in combat." Or for magic items, I hate the old D&D assembly line feel. Each item should be unique and epic.

That said if someone came here and they only played - for example - Pathfinder, and they only cared about Pathfinder, they should include their stats if they think those stats are important. They should just do so knowing they reduce the utility for others.
As this thread has moved along today, I think unless the stats are system neutral and necessary for the sub , They do not belong in body of the work, they should be totally confined to the idea section. That way everybody gets cake. I don't think its asking too much to put them at the bottom, the main body must conform to the rigid standards but forth by the grand majority of the work here. I've come to think val was wrong for putting them in the body. Its not what is going to lead to anything but strife and bad feelings. I had seen it done and was looking for clarification. Even if the majority can be convinced that this is ok, stats should not be a component of 90%+ of what is posted here.I feel that what I wrote above is the right way of going about this. I'm not looking for a fight ,to cause hard feeling but maybe this should be set ,as best we can, in stone. I complexly agree that we do NOT need to have a zillion subs relying totally on stats. I don't think we are as far apart on this as you think LS. The sub I have in mind is going to take a total look at the question of magic weapons and exactly how they fit in a low magic, high mana world.I think my last few subs speak for themselves on how I have raised the quality of what I am writing here and I don't want to backtrack, especially since my "little" melt down a couple of days ago has probably (with reason) left a bad taste in peeps mouths concerning me.
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Offline axlerowes

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2015, 05:29:29 PM »
Quote
Personally, I dislike stats in place of descriptions. I don't want to read "Groguk the Mighty has Str 18." I want to read "Groguk the Mighty is among the strongest of warriors, known across the land for his feats of strength." I don't want to read "this is a +1 sword." I want to read "The minor enchantment on this blade provides a modest edge in combat." Or for magic items, I hate the old D&D assembly line feel. Each item should be unique and epic.

That could be a fun writing challenge.  I wrote up a bunch of NPC one time for a Royal Court, but I started with the stats I got from the myth-weavers auto character generator.  I was not interested in writing up the stats but might need them in the game.  Anyway, I had some basic ideas of the character, but I wrote each from the stats up.

Here is example of a myth weavers random character
Quote
Harald, male human Bbn8:  CR 8; Size M (5 ft., 7 in. tall);
HD 8d12+16; hp 74; Init +1; Spd 40 ft.; AC 11; Attack +11/+6
melee, or +9/+4 ranged; SV Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +5; AL CE;
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 12.

Languages Spoken:  Common, Gnome.


Skills and feats:  Balance +4.5, Disguise +6, Hide +1, Jump
+13, Listen +3, Move Silently +1, Perform (Sing) +5, Ride
+12, Spot +4.5, Survival +14, Use Rope +5; Investigator,
Persuasive, Power Attack, Track.

Possessions:  9,400 gp  in gear.

Primary motivation: Boredom. The character has no other
reason than their life is otherwise uninteresting.

Secondary motivation: A need to defend themself from
_____________ (person). The character feels continually
threatened, and defense is their priority.

Recent Past: The character had a recent run in with followers
of Yondalla.

Offline Strolen

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2015, 05:50:50 PM »
I think the train of thought here mirrors mine. Chaosmark and Longspeak particularly hit my opinion well. I didn't mind the stats in the recent sub because I could totally ignore it without affecting the actual submission. I don't like the idea of that becoming the new "thing" but it is your site as much as mine so there are not going to be any solid rules about restricting them from subs.

So in the sub, in an idea. Whatever the author's preference as long as it is tastefully done.

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Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2015, 06:45:10 PM »
Ok, going to dip my toes in carefully.........................
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Offline Shadoweagle

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2015, 07:17:34 PM »
I know in gonna regret throwing my 2 cents into this. I hate getting into these debates :p

Anyway. First of all, I have to say that I am not a gamer. I've never played a single tabletop game in my life. I joined this site because I like the fantasy genre in general and find the creativity and thoughts on this site fascinating.

That being said, this site is a repository of ideas and inspiration for role players and game masters alike. People playing all kinds of systems use this site, and the site is deemed to be 'systemless' so everyone can benefit from it.

When someone uses a sub from here, it is very rare that it will fit into their game perfectly and thus must be chopped, changed or adapted to suit the needs of their current campaign. For this reason, it seems that a description of the general worth and function of a submission would be more flexible and thus more suitable than concrete numbers. Additionally, if someone isn't familiar with the system that your stats are from, they may have issues with converting them to their system.

All that being said, I personally couldn't care less if someone added stats to their subs. Go nuts! Go bananas! I just have two caveats:

1) don't sacrifice the flow of a good story for a juicy statblock. Whack your stats at the end of a sub, or at least between chapters.

2) don't substitute story for stats or my vote will go down, down down. Make me care about what you have to say. Make me laugh, frown, smile. Make me fearful. Make me think. Tell me a tale, dammit! THAT is what makes this site so much greater than anything else out there. We here capture imagination. We enthral our readers' minds. We make them care about what they read - you can't make someone care by showing them lines of numbers.

Make me care, and you can post all the stats you want.
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Offline Aramax

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Re: Question on the whole no stats thing?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2015, 07:52:32 PM »
I know in gonna regret throwing my 2 cents into this. I hate getting into these debates :p

Anyway. First of all, I have to say that I am not a gamer. I've never played a single tabletop game in my life. I joined this site because I like the fantasy genre in general and find the creativity and thoughts on this site fascinating.

That being said, this site is a repository of ideas and inspiration for role players and game masters alike. People playing all kinds of systems use this site, and the site is deemed to be 'systemless' so everyone can benefit from it.

When someone uses a sub from here, it is very rare that it will fit into their game perfectly and thus must be chopped, changed or adapted to suit the needs of their current campaign. For this reason, it seems that a description of the general worth and function of a submission would be more flexible and thus more suitable than concrete numbers. Additionally, if someone isn't familiar with the system that your stats are from, they may have issues with converting them to their system.

All that being said, I personally couldn't care less if someone added stats to their subs. Go nuts! Go bananas! I just have two caveats:

1) don't sacrifice the flow of a good story for a juicy statblock. Whack your stats at the end of a sub, or at least between chapters.

2) don't substitute story for stats or my vote will go down, down down. Make me care about what you have to say. Make me laugh, frown, smile. Make me fearful. Make me think. Tell me a tale, dammit! THAT is what makes this site so much greater than anything else out there. We here capture imagination. We enthral our readers' minds. We make them care about what they read - you can't make someone care by showing them lines of numbers.

Make me care, and you can post all the stats you want.
Fair enuf
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