Extraneous Voices of Picayune > Citadel Tavern

Dwarves. Must they be vertically challenged vikings?

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Wulfhere:
Each author will have their own ideas about what is central to a race like the dwarves and what details are ancillary.  I see the dwarves' affinity for stone and subterranean living as a central aspect of their collective character.  They are creatures of earth and stone, part of the land's roots.

This viewpoint raises its own questions:
- How does a race think differently when its "natural habitat" is far below the surface?  Is the surface an alien realm to dwarves?

- Dwarves aren't known for ties to water:  They are almost elementals of stone, iron, and earth.  How does a subterrene race function below the water table?

Shadoweagle:
Hmmm, that gives me some thoughts for new races of dwarves. First; those living in/around underground rivers/pools, who are more attuned to water than stone, and second: Deep dwarves who are alien even to 'normal' dwarves. Albino and reptilian, with odd morals and outlandish features. perhaps reptile or bug-like. Anywho. I might actually write up some different take on dwarves at some stage to this effect.

Gossamer:

--- Quote from: Shadoweagle on March 17, 2013, 02:11:52 AM ---Hmmm, that gives me some thoughts for new races of dwarves. First; those living in/around underground rivers/pools, who are more attuned to water than stone, and second: Deep dwarves who are alien even to 'normal' dwarves. Albino and reptilian, with odd morals and outlandish features. perhaps reptile or bug-like. Anywho. I might actually write up some different take on dwarves at some stage to this effect.

--- End quote ---

I'm sure you allready know this, but they've allready made deep dwarves; duergar. Of course with fantasy logic, their skin is black instead of white. Also, what you describe doesn't sound like dwarves at all anymore.

axlerowes:

--- Quote from: Gossamer on March 17, 2013, 05:43:47 AM ---Of course with fantasy logic, their skin is black instead of white. Also, what you describe doesn't sound like dwarves at all anymore.

--- End quote ---

I think this brings us back to the origins of the this thread. Why are the dwarves the way they are?  Were they created by a different god than other races?  Did they evolve into there current state? If they did evolve did they follow  a natural selection and genetic form of evolution?  Was their evolution Lamarkian?  Was it atomic chemistry or alchemical chemistry that guides their biological processes?   Can a large warm blooded race live underground without an energy source as abundant as the sun? So on and so forth...

I believe this is one the principle challenges presented by dwarven guild. We already know what dwarves are , they are what Muro says they are when he points to it (not exactly but you get my drift).  But there is a realized zeitgeist or jungian archetype for dwarves that allows them to be presented recognizably in popular settings such as warcraft, order of the stick, dwarf fortress, forgotten realms, spell jammer and so on.  The challenge, I believe is to either retro fit origin stories and explainations of dwarven behavior to this archetype or tweak the archetype to provide another arm to the dwarven identity that doesn't redefine the dwarven identity.  I think a well referenced  non fiction work that tracks dwarven evolution in literature, cultural memory, and mythology would be really interesting.


--- Quote from: Gossamer on March 16, 2013, 05:40:50 AM --- But, how far away can we move from the trope and still call them dwarves, that's the question. I agree that living below the ground is one aspect, but dwarves aren't the only ones living below ground, drow for instance don't exactly share the same cultural values as dwarves do. Granted that this is mostly due to background and circumstances, but there are similarities depending on which setting you use. Dwarves were said to have been enslaved by giants. And I believe the drow were also enslaved at some point, or one could argue that they are enslaved by Lolth. Yet they're showing mostly different values. I'm sure one could invent reasons as to why this is the case, but too much diversity and they break the mold and everything just turns into a big puddle of same same.

--- End quote ---

Thus, I see what you are saying.  But inventing the reasons "why this is the case" is where the action is at(as much as one can call backstory action....which at the citadel is very much) .  We are asking and answering questions without a concrete focus here.  I again say go out to the citadel content, take a dwarven post and tear it a part.

Murometz:
I love this thread.

DWARVES RULE, YOU DON'T!! Join the Guild. Elves suck! Join the Guild. :hypno:

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