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Offline Forganthus

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Arrogance
« on: June 05, 2012, 09:26:37 PM »
Do any of you guys suffer from arrogance?  I totally do.

When I notice that no one is commenting on my excellent subs I usually have to chug, like, three bottles of rum to calm down again.  And when they get low points I usually cut the monitor in half with my cutlass and throw it out the nearest porthole. 

But seriously, never be anything less than honest in your reviews.  Peer review sucks, if you aren't used to it, I guess.  It's just that I feel like I'm running out of A material.

Do you folks feel the same way, or am I the only one that gets this attached to my imagination's ejecta?

But seriously, Lady Evica deserves a higher score and I will have the crew flogged until it improves.

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Offline Murometz

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 09:54:41 PM »
Are you drinking right now? :)

Your stuff is magical. You're money, baby!

I'm on to you! You change the type of dragon, as your avatar, a few times a week! Aces.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 10:20:52 PM by Murometz »
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Offline Silveressa

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 09:00:40 AM »
I've found (after editing several older subs over the years) getting people to revisit, (and more importantly re-vote!) on a sub after their initial read through & vote is all but impossible.

You might get one or two close friends to give it a new higher vote and extra comment, but by and large a sub will be measured by its first impression on people.

There was a time back in the day when people used to openly question low votes, and were allowed to ask for more feedback from people who gave brief comments, but  The Law of the Hammer (http://strolen.com/viewing/Law_of_the_Hammer ) has since discouraged such practices since it's introduction.

For better or ill, I've found it's best to simply abandon a sub after it's dropped off the front page and move on to a new work and fresh idea; rather then expend ones efforts perfecting a beloved creation in what is often a futile (and wasted) effort.
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Offline Strolen

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2012, 12:35:33 PM »
Nothing is ever wasted when you love the craft. :)

But if you can think of a way to entice people to relook at old stuff, that would be an interesting puzzle.

Right now, it might be worth throwing a shout out into the Sagely Advice or Fields of Challenge forums with a link to it letting people know that you did some extra work on it. Might get some extra love that way too.


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Offline Silveressa

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 12:57:11 PM »
But if you can think of a way to entice people to relook at old stuff, that would be an interesting puzzle.

Hmm here's rough concept on how to make it happen in three relatively simple steps:

1:  Add in a column on the front page that highlights recently edited/updated subs so people can see what subs have been worked on recently.

2: Add  in a "Sub updated" button to allow authors to flag their own subs, indicating they've been updated. (similar to nominating a HOH sub but it only works on your own subs and restrict users to 1 per day +1 every 3-4 levels to keep it manageable) This way the author can flag their sub at the end of the update process when they're ready for  the re-vote/attention and it won't be auto flagged by minor grammar fixes, sentence additions, etc..

3: Give bonus (1.5x?) Xp for commenting/voting on the new sub to encourage people to give it another look and potential re-vote beyond "hey this has been updated!"
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 12:59:20 PM by Silveressa »
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Offline Kassy

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 02:18:53 PM »
But if you can think of a way to entice people to relook at old stuff, that would be an interesting puzzle.

Hmm here's rough concept on how to make it happen in three relatively simple steps:

1:  Add in a column on the front page that highlights recently edited/updated subs so people can see what subs have been worked on recently.

2: Add  in a "Sub updated" button to allow authors to flag their own subs, indicating they've been updated. (similar to nominating a HOH sub but it only works on your own subs and restrict users to 1 per day +1 every 3-4 levels to keep it manageable) This way the author can flag their sub at the end of the update process when they're ready for  the re-vote/attention and it won't be auto flagged by minor grammar fixes, sentence additions, etc..

3: Give bonus (1.5x?) Xp for commenting/voting on the new sub to encourage people to give it another look and potential re-vote beyond "hey this has been updated!"

I agree with Silveressa, we need an "Updated Submissions" section.

This has actually encouraged me to take a look at my old ones and try to improve them a little maybe.

We shall see :)

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Offline axlerowes

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 03:23:52 PM »
This might also encourage people not to delete to their low scored subs. 

Perhaps the powers that be can set up a rework or a edit quest.  It would  potentially exclude newer members, and it may have to include some process of selection or nomination. And it might be best to limit the number of entries per person lease somebody submit 10 years of unloved work.

Rough idea, take old, low voted or lows scored subs from still active people and have them submit again.

Offline Forganthus

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 02:04:06 AM »
What about daily, personal quests after a person significantly updates an entry?  (Maybe the Citadel auto-detects* when more than 10% of the content in a sub has been changed?) Then, the Citadel gives you an old sub to rejudge, without telling you your old rating or the overall rating of the sub.  You'd have to come at it with a fresh look, sort of like the Daily Highlight thing.

This is a lot of work, though.  Silveressa's ideas actually seem implementable.  Is Strolen the only one that works on the site?

@Silveressa: You're dropping eggs of wisdom on my head.  That seems like really good advice; thank you.  I think I might expand a couple of the lengthy plot ideas from Evica into actual Plot subs.  Even if they don't get people rereading it, at least I'll have another chance to vindicate her.

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Offline Strolen

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 12:54:30 PM »
Found this on my todo list and I love the ideas. Just thinking of the actual implementation. With the new author page set-up, there might be a possibility in there somewhere. Maybe on the main page of the type of sub it is. I think the frontpage is getting a little crowded though so not sure where to do it. Would only one updated sub a day be worth it as sort of like the extra XP sub of the day thing?

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Offline MysticMoon

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2013, 03:02:02 PM »
One minimal solution using current functionality that might help is the option to receive an email when an author adds a comment on an update. That way anyone who gets email notifications will become aware that there was an important edit.
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Offline Shadoweagle

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2013, 04:21:34 PM »
I'll read this thread more therapy when I get home, but what if, every one or two levels gained in the citadel,  authors gain a 'rebirth' point or something of the like, and they are able to spend that rebirth point on one of their subs. Rebirthing a sub removes all votes on the sub but retains the comments, and puts the sub in the in work private status again, for the author to rework it. Once the author is happy with ot they may re-release it and it will be posted on the main page as though it were a new sub, but with a phoenix symbol instead of the usual image for the type of sub it is (to denote that it is reborn). All the comments previously on it will still be viewable but they will be separated and people may re vote on it. The idea of the points being given on a level up is so that they still have to work a little bit for it, and so people just can't rebirth every sub they have over and over. Additionally, if someone wants extra rebirth points they may complete forum quests, the reward of which is some xp and a rebirth token.
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Offline Murometz

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2013, 04:29:31 PM »
necromancy. re-incarnation. re-birth. pheonix motif. I'm intrigued.
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Offline Dossta

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2013, 05:34:41 PM »
I'll read this thread more therapy when I get home, but what if, every one or two levels gained in the citadel,  authors gain a 'rebirth' point or something of the like, and they are able to spend that rebirth point on one of their subs. Rebirthing a sub removes all votes on the sub but retains the comments, and puts the sub in the in work private status again, for the author to rework it. Once the author is happy with ot they may re-release it and it will be posted on the main page as though it were a new sub, but with a phoenix symbol instead of the usual image for the type of sub it is (to denote that it is reborn). All the comments previously on it will still be viewable but they will be separated and people may re vote on it. The idea of the points being given on a level up is so that they still have to work a little bit for it, and so people just can't rebirth every sub they have over and over. Additionally, if someone wants extra rebirth points they may complete forum quests, the reward of which is some xp and a rebirth token.

I really like this idea.  It neatly solves the problem of spamming people who have already voted on a submission, and adds a new perk to the Citadel.  I would love the chance to rebirth a few of my submissions at some point, and gain fresh comments and new perspective on them like this.  Tying this in to the guilds as a potential reward for Guild leaders to disperse is also a nice way to bridge the gap between the Citadel proper and the burgeoning guild system.  I approve!

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Offline Strolen

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 06:58:55 AM »
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Offline Scrasamax

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Re: Arrogance
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 07:21:40 AM »
I'll read this thread more therapy when I get home, but what if, every one or two levels gained in the citadel,  authors gain a 'rebirth' point or something of the like, and they are able to spend that rebirth point on one of their subs. Rebirthing a sub removes all votes on the sub but retains the comments, and puts the sub in the in work private status again, for the author to rework it. Once the author is happy with ot they may re-release it and it will be posted on the main page as though it were a new sub, but with a phoenix symbol instead of the usual image for the type of sub it is (to denote that it is reborn). All the comments previously on it will still be viewable but they will be separated and people may re vote on it. The idea of the points being given on a level up is so that they still have to work a little bit for it, and so people just can't rebirth every sub they have over and over. Additionally, if someone wants extra rebirth points they may complete forum quests, the reward of which is some xp and a rebirth token.

I like this idea, if I could have a second chance at some of my subs, especially those that I feel failed to meet their potential, that would be awesome


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