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Offline MoonHunter

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Evolution Rocks!
« on: July 17, 2003, 06:24:41 AM »
Evolution Rocks or Justification for modifiying book monsters.

You ever modify a book monster and have the players be annoyed that it didn't have the normal abilities of its type?  Well, sometimes things are not what they seem. Also, there are things that are not "average" as well.  If people give you grief about this, give them the URL

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0414_030314_strangeape.html

A mysterious group of apes found in the war-torn Democratic Republic of Congo in central Africa has scientists and conservationist scratching their heads. The apes nest on the ground like gorillas but have a diet and features characteristic of chimpanzees.
The apes are most likely a group of giant chimpanzees that display gorilla-like behavior. A far more remote possibility is that they represent a new subspecies of great ape. Researchers plan to return to the region later this month to collect more clues to help resolve the mystery.

What this article does not address, is that these Chimpanzesk creatures are on their way to becoming something other than Chimpanzees.  We just caught them before they really shifted.
MoonHunter
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Offline manfred

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Evolution Rocks!
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2003, 06:38:04 AM »
What this article does not address, is that these Chimpanzesk creatures are on their way to becoming something other than Chimpanzees. We just caught them before they really shifted.

Like ummm... becoming sentient, for example? :what:


Evolution is a powerful force.
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Offline MoonHunter

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It has yet to be proved that intelligence has any survival .
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2003, 06:51:08 AM »
It has yet to be proved that intelligence has any survival value.
--  Arthur C. Clarke

So far the intelligence experiment that Gaia is performing is not working out as well as one would hope.  

The Japanese Macaque Monkey, those cool monkeys in Japan that you often see covered in snow, who avoid the cold by spending much of the winter in the hotsprings, are my current canidates for next sentient on the planet.
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Offline CaptainPenguin

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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2003, 11:59:42 AM »
I say Chimpanzees or Dolphins.
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Offline Ria Hawk

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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2003, 02:45:34 PM »
I say the dolphins are already there.
"Man thought he was the more intelligent species because he had invented things like the wheel, New York, and war, whereas all the dolphins had done was just muck about in the water having a good time.  Strangely, the dolphins thought they were more intelligent for precisely the same reasons."  - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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Offline Agar

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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2003, 02:47:54 PM »
Maybe we can get chimpanzees to use AOL. Then they'll be as smart as the rest of suckers. If we can get them in a Yahoo newsgroup, it won't be as cool, but it'd be a start.
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Offline Siren365

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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2003, 02:51:04 PM »
I don't believe in evolution.
Tell me, Lucifer Morningstar.. Ask yourselves, all of you... What power would Hell have if those here imprisoned were not able to dream of Heaven?
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Offline Agar

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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2003, 02:52:15 PM »
I don't believe in the french.
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Offline Strolen

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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2003, 04:39:58 PM »
I think the gorillas/chimps nest in the grass because they are simply too big to comfortably nest in the trees. Simple thing of convenience and common sense that gets read too far into. hehe  :twisted:

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Offline CaptainPenguin

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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2003, 10:31:02 PM »
Why not evolution? Even if you believe in God or Gods, maybe the Gods inspired evolution!
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Offline strom

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Evolution Rocks!
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2003, 04:26:15 AM »
There is no past proof of evolution. Onlya few animals can crossbreed- horse and donkey = mule- but their offspring is always born sterile.

There is nothing that is evolving today. If evolution were fact there would still be tribes of newly created humans being born with genetical asperations to make us extinct.

What would come first- the snake's resistence to poison or the specific poison it creates? How do genetic strands decide to grow feathers, sprout wings, and create a creature with hollow bones for flight; then there is the genetic strands capability to conceive the idea of consuming food, digesting it and then deficating.

Even Darwin himself, late in life, wrote that his writings were mere theory, because neither he nor the scientists before him had generated any shred of evidence that we were pooped out of a monkey's butt.

Basicaly, when you see an ant you know what it is, because, though different in size and purpose, they are all the same. Kinda like people, we are different colors, and personalities, but we are all still humans.

(whew.)
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Offline manfred

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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2003, 06:51:45 AM »
Evolution is not pop music. You don't get a new hit or popstar every week. Evolution takes time. Evolution needs great amounts of time to create something truly new, and even that does not have to be interesting, groundbreaking or fabulous.

Evolution does not 'decide'. It creates something, and if it lives long enough, it is considered successfull.
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Offline ephemeralstability

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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2003, 10:31:32 AM »
Quote from: "strom"
There is no past proof of evolution. Onlya few animals can crossbreed- horse and donkey = mule- but their offspring is always born sterile.


What about the fossil record? Interbreeding is nothing to do with evolution. Evolution can occur inside a given species.

Quote from: "strom"
There is nothing that is evolving today.


Counterexample: superviruses. They evolve with alarming rapidity to overcome the newest medicines.

Quote from: "strom"
If evolution were fact there would still be tribes of newly created humans being born with genetical asperations to make us extinct.


Eh? Where did you get that from Strom? There are always "newly created humans": babies. They have no "genetical aspirations": it is simply that their genes may or may not give them an advantage over their peers and mean that they are more able to survive and reproduce to pass on and propagate those genes. The "purpose" (if there is one) of evolution is not to make us extinct, rather to propagate and improve the species.

Quote from: "strom"
What would come first- the snake's resistence to poison or the specific poison it creates? How do genetic strands decide to grow feathers, sprout wings, and create a creature with hollow bones for flight; then there is the genetic strands capability to conceive the idea of consuming food, digesting it and then deficating.


As Manfred says, they do it over time because these characteristics give creatures an advantage over others. The specific mutations arise by chance and then continue to exist in the gene pool precisely because they give the creature an advantage.

Quote from: "strom"
Even Darwin himself, late in life, wrote that his writings were mere theory, because neither he nor the scientists before him had generated any shred of evidence that we were pooped out of a monkey's butt.


Yes, of course Darwin's theory of evolution is exactly that: a theory. It's a very good one though. And as far as monkeys' bottoms are concerned...

Quote from: "strom"
Basicaly, when you see an ant you know what it is, because, though different in size and purpose, they are all the same. Kinda like people, we are different colors, and personalities, but we are all still humans.


How does this relate to your argument?

Quote from: "strom"
(whew.)


Well quite.

ephe!
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Offline Siren365

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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2003, 04:38:16 PM »
Still... it's pretty silly to think humans evolved from monkeys or apes, or whatever... just cause we share similar characteristics doesn't make it true. I don't know. It's just religious thing. Superviruses and all that... God's work. *shrugs* Although, sometimes I think humans were a freak accident.
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Offline Blue

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Evolution Rocks!
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2003, 04:51:58 PM »
Evolution is changing so that your speicis can live on and prosper. Say if your an ant and your exposed to radiation and it kills you and your queen gets some radiation poisoning after years and years and years your speicis of ants would eventualy become tolerant to radiaton.

Anyone follow?

Offline Strolen

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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2003, 05:04:54 PM »
How about humans right now. Evolution before your eyes.

Hunter-gatherers we were all skinny.

Now we are in the information/communication age where hunting and gathering is meaningless when we have delivery services. We are adjusting to this new way of life by becoming fat.

Soon we will all be like Jabba-The-Hut and be mounds of flesh surrounded by electronics. Robots will be cultivating our food and we will be doing our communication thing and trading stocks.

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Offline Blue

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Evolution Rocks!
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2003, 05:06:22 PM »
Who says we arn't all already huts...scary thought, I hope im long dead by that day strolen.

Offline Agar

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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2003, 06:52:33 PM »
Is adaptation evoulution or just adaptaion?

In the winter, it gets cold. Cats and Dogs get longer hair in the winter. In the summer, it gets warm again. Cats and Dogs shed thier long hair. Did they evolve into a new type of animal or just adapt to the weather?

One piece of grass grows on an animal dropping and gets taller. Being taller, it gets more sunlight and gets taller yet. Some of it's offspring share it's tallness, some don't. The ones that are taller, keep getting taller and taller untill we have grass that grows several stories high. Did the grass adapt to get more sunlight by being taller, or did it evole into a new plant?

Did God make all the creatures and animals and then go "Oh, d**n, I've got parts left over." and make the Platupus?

If God is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why does he need my pocket change and only shows up at your church in one man?
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Offline Umbra03

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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2003, 08:23:58 PM »
rrrrright.....
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Offline strom

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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2003, 02:48:18 AM »
The pocket change, in the proper church, is for helping the community as well as paying the churches bills. In my church we help battered wives, do outreach to kids and bus them in from a town 12 miles away for church (there are at least seven in the area that I can think of), we are also given the opportunity to find our calling.

It is written that there are seven types of churches and all but two are are found to be displeasing.
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To crush your enemies; to have them flee before you, and to hear the lamenations of their women.

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Offline manfred

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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2003, 11:23:29 AM »
Sometimes I think we humans actually stopped evolving... it is the technology we create that saves us from dying out... It is more likely we will end as idiots bound to the best TV-set. OR:

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Offline CaptainPenguin

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« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2003, 03:26:22 PM »
The thing is, evolution happens, even if we can't see it. The fish, born with deformed backbones? Frogs with extra legs? Superviruses? Those're called "mutations". Sound familiar? Those are freakishly excelerated (sp?) evolution, spurred by mankind's unnatural creations. The fat guy who lives down the street? His ancestor was probably a lean, mean, mammoth-killing machine. You know the reason that the ceilings in ancient structures are so low? Because humans used to be shorter.
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Offline ephemeralstability

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« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2003, 05:36:38 PM »
Indeed. Doesn't even have to be ancient buildings: go back only a couple of centuries and you have to bend down.
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