RPG-Style Mini-Game

[Chakual]

I didn't know where to write this...

Do you have any ideas for a mini-game that players play over and over again but still evolve at the same time??

The following is a conversation I had with manfred, it explains pretty much what i want:
(Sorry about the format)

[Chakual] 11:44 pm: but i need an idea where it's something that you can play over and over again but evolve at the same time...
[manfred] 11:44 pm: Mmm, mini-games. What kind of games?
[Chakual] 11:44 pm: like you know Final fantasy Tetra Master??
[manfred] 11:45 pm: Nope.
[Chakual] 11:45 pm: the kind of games where you the more you play, the more cards you can get and be stronger for next game...
[manfred] 11:45 pm: Are we speaking of computer games only, or is any kind of games... ah, CCGs.
[Chakual] 11:48 pm: but i don't want a card game...
[Chakual] 11:48 pm: i want something new... and want people to offer ideas for that...
[manfred] 11:51 pm: You want something like a card game... but without the cards(?)
[Chakual] 11:51 pm: Hehe Yeah!!
[Chakual] 11:51 pm: or with the cards but not in the classical way...
[manfred] 11:52 pm: So think which mechanisms of that type of games you would like to preserve, and what you would leave out.
[manfred] 11:52 pm: In other words: what you like and what you don't.
[Chakual] 11:53 pm: If i knew, i wouldn't have asked... Problem is: I have lots of ideas but it's all very confused in my mind and can't really make a
solid concept...
[manfred] 11:53 pm: Try a few.
[Chakual] 11:54 pm: OK: do you know how to play stratego??
[manfred] 11:54 pm: Hmmm... I actually have seen this somewhere... but sorry, no expert here.
[Chakual] 11:55 pm: ok so you have a board made up of a certain number of squares...
[manfred] 11:56 pm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratego - oh, I 've actually played a remake a few times!
[Chakual] 11:56 pm: the game starts: both players choose from their Items (Preferably not cards) and place them in a certain number of lines...
[Chakual] 11:57 pm: good, so the initial position would resemble that of stratego or chess...
[manfred] 11:57 pm: Uh-huh.
[Chakual] 11:57 pm: but the players you choose have some kind of jobs: assassin, warrior, mage...
[manfred] 11:58 pm: (So a fantasy variant of the game.)
[Chakual] 11:58 pm: exactely...
[Chakual] 11:59 pm: but the players can't move in any direction: they are restricted by the arrows that define them (kind of like in card games...)
[manfred] 11:59 pm: Stratego has a clearly defined pecking order, who-kills-whom... how will that be resolved in your game?
[Chakual] 12:00 am: assassin's have more damage if they attack from behind... rangers can attack with a square distance...
[manfred] 12:00 am: So... you will have two armies facing each other, and just ignore the terrain...right?
[Chakual] 12:01 am: each piece in the game has some HP...
[manfred] 12:01 am: Ah, the good ole HPs. How will they be tracked?
[Chakual] 12:02 am: i don't know yet either HP or directly one of the two pieces "dies"
[Chakual] 12:03 am: but if it's HP it depends on the Piece level and the job + some slight chance factor...
[manfred] 12:03 am: Well, if you have hit points, you need to keep track of them. How many pieces will there be in play?
[Chakual] 12:04 am: doesn't matter yet... computer will keep track of that...
[manfred] 12:04 am: (Ah... so it will be a computer game?)
[Chakual] 12:04 am: yep
[manfred] 12:05 am: So, so. Computer freak. We have a few of those, too.     
[Chakual] 12:05 am: and if there's no HP involved, then fight outcome is settled directly by one fight (probably the preferable solution)
[Chakual] 12:05 am: Yes computer freak...
[Chakual] 12:05 am: hehe
[manfred] 12:05 am: (yes, that woud be simple... though a computer can handle a lot)
[Chakual] 12:06 am: and about the terrain, maybe add some final fantasy tactics style...
[Chakual] 12:07 am: Have you played it??
[manfred] 12:07 am: So it will be a strategy/board game, with an army you will sweep through battles... or not.     
[manfred] 12:07 am: Nope.
[Chakual] 12:08 am: [manfred] 12:07 am: So it will be a strategy/board game, with an army you will sweep through battles... --> Kind Of, but as you can see it's still all very confused...

[Pariah]

Let me get this straight...

What's wanted:
Kinda like a CCG, but not...
Statego/Chess setup?
Different Playing Pieces

Gameplay:
Turn-based
You improve with each victory

Possible Examples of Previous Applications:
Statego
Chess
Advance Wars (GBA) {If you have never played it Chak, PM me and I'll get you a copy of the game to play.}
Combat System in Civilization Games


-----------------------

Pariah's Ideas:
Line of Sight/Fog of War, often found in RTS games.
Terrain that further amplifies this
--You can only see 1 square in the Forest
--You can see a Mountain from 3x your normal view distance
--Plains double your view distance
Terrain should also provide defensive/offensive bonuses
--Plains allow easier use of bow
--Hide/Defense bonuses double in the forest
With each victory, to the victor goes X points
--Point can be used for 2 different things
----Upping the abilities/lvl of your pieces
----Buying new pieces
Pieces are more diverse than just class, including a race, a class, and possibly another variable that would allow for numerous different pieces.
--Races grant a static starting bonus
----Orcs are always strong but stupid
----Elves are good at hiding but weak
--Classes abilities improve as more points are spent
--3rd variable: Equipment
----Bought with points and given to individual units
----Static bonus that can be removed and given to another unit
----Possibly allow looting of corpses?
I would personally allow the pieces to move about


Are those what you were looking for?

[Chakual]

Yes this is pretty much what I'm looking for... Thanks.

I have the following comments/questions though:

--Size of board: What do you think of a 6x6 board (Starting position: the 2 end rows for each team (12 pieces each) + the 2 middle rows empty)

--Line of sight: I think it might be better to see the whole board because anyway the pieces are hidden to the opponent until there's a fight. This would allow for more strategy. But maybe add fog that appears randomly from time to time, which would allow each player to swap two pieces.

--Terrain: Do you suggest it gets generated randomly every game or keep it fixed?? Also, should the terrain be symmetrical for both sides to be equally fair or again randomly generated for every side?? Can you attack someone that's on a different level than you are (Mountain vs. Plain)??

[MoonHunter]

What you want is either HeroScape (for a battle orrientation) or HeroQuest (if you want a dungeon orrientation.

HeroScape: It is collectable. It is improvable. It has terrain. It can be a lot of fun. It is....

This Fantasy Battle Board Game comes with dozens of painted plastic miniatures, each representing a warrior from a different era, and hex-based hard plastic terrain pieces which can be put together in many different ways. The warriors include 30 plastic figures, including World War II soldiers, futuristic robots, aliens, a T-rex-riding orc, a large dragon, and many more. Each hero or squad has its own card that details both movement and combat abilities.

There are 2 large ruins and 85 tiles of terrain in the base game. Some terrain tiles are large (up to 24 hexes) while others are small (1 hex). There are water, sand, rock and grass tiles (in roughly increasing order). Many different battlefields can be built by attaching and stacking the tiles.

The rulebook features two games: a basic and a master version. In the basic version (designed for younger players < 8 years), characters move, attack, defend, and have range -- but there are no special powers and some other rules are minimized and/or eliminated. The master game includes special powers, wounds, engagement rules, falling rules, and a few other additions.

A battlefield/scenario book shows how to build five battlefields, layer by layer. Each battlefield may have multiple scenarios, where the goals vary. It can be opponent elimination, getting to a certain space, protecting a certain figure, or holding out for a certain number of turns.

Each unit in the Master Set has a movement rating ranging from 4 to 7, which is the number of hexes it can move in a turn. Moving up a level counts as a hex; moving down does not incur that penalty. Moving down more levels than your height when moving from one hex to another counts as falling and you might take damage --unless you are falling into water.

Combat in the game is fairly straightforward. You roll attack dice as listed on your unit's card (1 to 8 dice), and the opponent rolls defense dice equal to the number on their unit's card (1 to 9 dice). Skulls rolled in excess of shields count as wounds (hero figures may have more than one Life).

The master game uses a point system in which players alternate drafting cards until they reach the pre-assigned point value for the scenario. It's possible to bring a "pre-fab" army to the battle in order to save time.

The basic game is for two players. The master game is for 2 to 4 (and more) players.
The game is eminently customizable, with many expansions which add more abilities, terrain, and options. There are also user-created maps, scenarios, custom units and advanced rules available online.

HeroScape: Rise of the Valkyrie is the master set for the HeroScape series of games.

http://www.hasbro.com/heroscape/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroScape

http://www.heroscapers.com/

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HeroQuest is Milton Bradley's approach to a Dungeons & Dragons-style adventure game. One player acts as game master, revealing the maze-like dungeon piecemeal as the players wander. Up to four other players take on a character (wizard, elf, dwarf or barbarian) and venture forth into dungeons on fantasy quests. Miniature plastic characters and doll-house style furniture make this game very approachable. Expansions were also released for this system.

The HeroQuest series consists of the main game and number of expansions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroQuest_(board_game)

http://www.aginsinn.com/

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Or you can design your own.... but these products might give you some ideas... 

Mage Knight and Heroclix are in some way does what you want. THey could serve as the basis for what you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage_Knight   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroClix

[manfred]

--Line of sight: I think it might be better to see the whole board because anyway the pieces are hidden to the opponent until there's a fight. This would allow for more strategy. But maybe add fog that appears randomly from time to time, which would allow each player to swap two pieces.

The sight bit got me thinking. The pieces may be hidden, but the computer can make things possible that are harder to implement in a board game.

 - some pieces, particularly special pieces with larger size (say an ogre amongst that orcish mob) would be recognizable as big from the beginning, and likely draw more attention (not to speak they would be easier to hit by ranged attacks)
 - depending on their rate of movement, pieces may reveal some of their characteristics. A charging cavalery is hard to misinterpret.
 - for, say, that undead army that is guaranteed to show up sooner or later, it could be surrounded by fog (probably created by special pieces), that would make it very hard to identify what is really inside. Of course a genuine fog would make things interesting for both sides - so there can be many different weather effects waiting on the battlefield.

This could be the starring role for the spy characters - merely approaching the enemy ranks could reveal much information about the composition of the enemies army, and maybe even its condition. They better be hidden, though...

[Chakual]

Thanks for the ideas...