Quest for the BIG LIST generator.

[manfred]

See the Big List of..., unless you haven't already.


Seeing what comes with just a few examples, it clearly needs an editor. Sadly, I do not have time for this. Any volunteers? We need you to have strong systematic thinking, and to be unafraid of large amounts of data. It is OK if done in parts. It could be even done by several people, you may just divide the Skills by alphabet letters (or however), and stay consistent with each other.


The job is to divide the Skills into selected categories, and add them to the generator. Volunteers please apply here. I can give more info on the desired format in case my chaotic JavaScript is not clearly understandable to you.

The reward is undying fame eternal, and a small note in the Credits. Once we jump over to Citadel V2, we could also give you some extra XP... but I am sure you fans of roleplaying games won't do this for the XP only, right? *cue evil Game Master laughter*

---

UPDATE:
the Big List is actively worked at and may be complete in a few weeks. Stay tuned.

[Ancient Gamer]

If it is just alphabetizing and readying for insertion into your Javascript + moving into categories, then I can help. I will use this thread and continually update my progress.

It would be nice if others contributed, it does not seem like terrible fun. Contribution need not be more than a comment on my chosen categories and the like.

[manfred]

Thanks you for your quick reply, AG. Good Luck on your Quest!

The categories/clusters so far are: (not all are used yet)

Agricultural
Artistic/Performance
Athletic
Combative
Deductive
Knowledge/Lore
Mercantile
Mystical
Natural/Outdoors
Perceptive
Political
Religious
Social
Shadow
Technical
Traveller

A "Craft" or "Professional" category is being considered (many seem to fall into Knowledge/Lore).


The other kind of sorting is the Any/Fantasy/Modern/Sci-fi grouping... most fall naturally into Any, so this shouldn't be a problem.

[Ancient Gamer]

Good thing I did not use my weekend on this then, considered that Mourngrymn already has completed it.

Quest accomplished by him then, and I abandon it. And people (mourngrymn in this case) Perhaps it would be wise to let people know when they are working on the same thing, to avoid a duplicated effort?  

[manfred]

*ahem*

The Quest is not over yet. My fault for not being clear in that post: Mourngrymn has created a nice document with those Skills, etc., in a form handy for printing and reference.

BUT...

Those Skills are still not sorted into groups (clusters), so the Big List generator is not finished yet.

The quest is certainly not over yet... *pulls out a very small whip, enchanted to cause pleasure instead of pain, cracks whip* Back to work!

[Nosredna]

  Wheres the point in a whip like that?!?

*Shakes fist* Bring on the Pain!!!

[manfred]

(This is a repository for all things we don't want to decide right now, but leave for later on. It will be edited as the work progresses.)

Skills that are hard to categorize/Unclear skills:
(ponder on these later)

?'survival' - as a general skill, not bound to locale (there are such already)

'naturalist' - ??? there are several definitions and points of view on this

What is H.A.M. again?

Add:
?'Florentine Style' - 2-weapon attacking.


Not sure about combining Perceptive and Shadow... keep them separate for now.

[CaptainPenguin]

Note to Shadow: 'stealth', 'silent move', 'sneak', 'shadowing', even 'hide in shadow'; make sure there is not duplicity or make differences clearer

Stealth is far too general.
Shadowing would be following someone closely behind them without being noticed.
I would suggest that Silent Move and Sneak are the exact same thing.

[Kinslayer]

'Zero-G maneuvers' - is it same as 'zero-G combat'?

In Palladium's Mutants in Orbit book, movement in low or no gravity required a separate skill, and was used for moving your body about a spaceship (or outside thereof), rather than moving the spaceship itself.  There were also zero-G combat skills, as in that system, combat bonuses are a function of skills rather than based on class & level.
 
'Theology' - can be separate from a Religion skill.  The former is a scholarly overview of many religions, while the latter is specialised for a single religion & studies within the context of that religion.  For example, a professor of theology needs to know different things--and in a different way--than a Baptist minister, even on the same subject.

As regarding categorising, this is what I do.  If it involves magic at all, it's Mystic.  If it is used primarily to harm or hinder another in combat, it's Martial. If it is used to deal with other people--other than by enchantment or violence--it's Social.  Everything else goes into the catch-all category of Technical.  Thus, skills such as Speak Language would then be Social.

[manfred]

Updated the generator and the WTF post above. Now contains stuff from I upwards, and A-D.


Hearty thanks to CP and Kinslayer!

[manfred]

Got a real intensive session on the Big List generator. Doing a letter or two at once, and getting up to F (so all MoonHunter's stuff from F upwards is there). It is fast work if divided into small manageable chunks, and leaving all unclear skills for a later decision (see the WTF post above).

Decided to skip many skills, particularly of the medical field, and a large number of skills with the bio- prefix. The list started to look unbalanced, and adding skills from ather areas of knowledge would make it more of a human-generator.


Skill clusters evaluation:

Agricultural - too few, will do better in a new Crafts cluster
Artistic - not many, but can stay I think
Athletic - can stay
Combative - seems small, but weapon skills are usually system-dependant. Stays.
Knowledge - the largest group, some should go elsewhere
Mercantile - a small group that could handle some increase
Natural - small, but can possibly stay
Perceptive - very small. Add to Shadow? (possible duplicities)
Social - a manageable size. Stays.
Shadow - not large, but ok
Technical - fine, stays


New Clusters/Unused clusters

Crafts definitely. Will also recieve some of the Knowledge and Technical, probubly join with Agricultural.

Mystical has very few but quite desirable skills; if not more are found, they will be spread into Knowledge and even Perception.

Deductive: deduction - is there any other skill to the Deductive cluster? And where to put it?

Political: bureaucracy, counter-espionage - any more skills? Probably into Social and Shadow.

Traveller: boating, camping, astrogation(interstellar navigation), navigation - too few - divide into Natural, Athletic and Knowledge

[Ancient Gamer]

Okay, I realize that some skills were put in the wrong category (like bioengineering), but that is bound to happen. Many are ambiguous, but there is no point in dwelling on that, so I just alloted such skills to the most suitable category.

So... What are my next two and half letters for this week? D-F?

How much is already covered?

Perhaps you should post a link to the generator... With big fonts and all, like, for instance, this:

Code: [Select]

[size=18][url="http://manfredslink.sk/"]Link to generator[/url][/size]

Or?

[manfred]

The link is only some two posts above, dear AG.

But fine, how about:

Link to the Big List generator


All letters from F upwards (F included) area already added. (You may also peek into the code, if you want to see some awkward Javascript. It's all there.)

[Ancient Gamer]

Okay, then just parts of D and all of E remains. Say so if those are done before the weekend, aye?

[manfred]

Added Iain's few, and started with Kinslayer's list (done up to F). Problems due to many skills that are certainly spells, and several hard-to-explain ones. Updated WTF post above again.

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Also, seeing this all turned into a blog of sorts, the thread deserves some cleaning up once the Big List is completed.

[Kinslayer]

A few from Kinslayer: (mostly skipped as spells or needing more detail/explanation)

'Ambrosia' - This is an alchemic skill.  You know how to create and employ a sticky-sweet mess that attracts insects.  
'Blade Etiquette' - Knife, sword, etc.  sharpening

skipped (probable) spells:

'Bonecraft' - A craft skill, with bones, just as claimed; compare 'woodcraft' or 'stonecraft'
 'Claimant Howl' - It's a wolf thing, purely social rather than magic. "This land is mine."
'Cries in the Night' - Understanding of "bumps in the night;" you can tell the difference between a normally falling branch & an intruder sneaking into your campsite, or between an owl's hooting for joy over killing a rabbit & warning hoots of another (bigger) predator.
'Cry of Panic' - Another wolf thing, think "loud and creepy Feat."
'Detect Gates' - Certainly magical in nature, but not a spell per se, but rather the skilled ability to recognise and understand interdimensional portals when they appear.
'Disappear', 'Disappear: Advanced' - Batman & the Crow use these to full effect, non-magical.
'Dispel Magic ' - This is a magic skill only on a technicality. Spells are disrupted by a swift kick in the groin.
'Fearful Howl' - Yet another wolf thing, this one is a stunning attack.
'Folding Body' - Non-magical, but restricted to shapeshifters.
'Glyph writing' - Not a spell, but rather a meta-magic skill.  Glyph writing teaches the correct way to scribe whatever mystic symbols you know.

Blood-bonding ritual and blood blessing are ritualised spells.

skipped 'artist skill suite','Clerical Skill Suite', 'Courier Skill Suite',

Skill suites are collections of related skills, and may be treated (in the system, at least) as general skills themselves.

'Distinguished Expertise' - This is a specialised form of fast-talk, where you can convincingly seem to know more on a subject than you actually do.

'Call to Arms' - Also in the "big puppy" category, this summons (vocally, non-magically) allies.
'Calling' - It's a spell. You can summon an entity that you have already bound to you.
'Chemical Distraction' - Another alchemical skill, this one allows you to craft a concoction of aromas designed to conjure childhood memories, and do so with enough intensity to act as a stunning attack.
'Flank Riding' - This is riding on the side of the horse--not sidesaddle, but clinging to one side so that only one hand and one foot are at all visible from the opposite side.
'Florentine Style' - 2-weapon attacking.
'Flying Powder' - More alchemical nastiness, this one causes strong disassociation.


The full write-ups of all of the skills can be found at the link in my .sig.

[manfred]

I've got through.

It is far from complete, with the monstruous WTF post of many examples that need to be clarified, renamed, included or skipped. While at that, the categories need to be polished - some will be lumped into others, some new ones will rise. Also, finally need to check on the totals, and make sure the generator is not too heavy in some directions (and that could be the hardest part...).

But, I've gone through practically ALL of the skills, including Kinslayer's. (Hey, AG, where's that D-E? Still waiting on those.) My brain is too categorised now... continue later.

[Kinslayer]

You're a better man than I am.  I wouldn't want to go through my list...

[manfred]

Added even the few missing ones, so ALL skills were at least once checked. There's still a trillion of them in the WTF post, but who cares (right now).


Clusters:

Crafts - contains agricultural and other skills of the common folk, so to speak. Some of the Knowledge skills can be moved here.

Artistic - a slim category, but can stay

Athletic - athletic, dextrous, and sporty stuff here

Combative - all sorts of combat-related skills. Many martial arts, too.

Knowledge - MANY, possibly too many, needs some skills moved elsewhere and some removed.

Mercantile - so small... Anyone more ideas on mercantile skills?

Natural - nature-related skills - tracking, animals, etc. Also skills that directly manipulate the users body and even mid, and other vaguely similar ones - contortionist, healing, breath control, meditation, etc.

Shadow - domain of shadowy characters, not necessarily thieves; mostly the technical aspect of the art. Contains also the Perceptive stuff (would be too small a category).

Social - all kinds of inter-human, political and similar skills

Technical - a decently large cluster

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Still considered clusters:

Traveller: boating, camping, astrogation(interstellar navigation), navigation, fly, horsemanship, horsemanship: cavalry, horsemanship: exotic, horsemanship: expert, horsemanship: knight, land navigation, nautical navigation, travel sense, walking, wayfarer, drive (Automobiles, MotorCycles, Heavy Equipment, Military Vehicles)

Mystical: augury, aura perception, telekinesis, occult lore, mysticism, mindblock, tap vital energies, tap nodes, polymorph control, mage sight, dark rites, arcane symbols, divination-cards, divination-pendulum, psychometry, runes, scrying, spirit charm, summoning circle and possibly more

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Last incarnation

So what do you think of the generator and the categories/clusters?

[manfred]

Hey look, it took me only a year! 

If you have some free time but are not in mood for anything else, why don't you return to some favourite abandoned project, brush the dust off it, and work a little on it?

After a few small additions and a lot of removals of the WTF post, I do not foresee any large changes in the data. Therefore, I have added a semblance of a design, polished it a little and attached some flavour text. Behold:


The Big List Generator


Comments invited.

Edit: edited link.

[Mourngrymn]

Is this from that excell file I sent that long time ago? If it is I remember when you had your first version of it and it was nice then. It looks 100% better now.

[Strolen]

Awesome!

Need to have a quest around this generator. Develop a character from it's results!

[manfred]

Note the credits, Mourn. You're right there.