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Dragons to you are.......

Mystical creatures that hold great power
17 (70.8%)
Evil creatures that have a nature to kill
1 (4.2%)
Kind creatures that aid humans to success
1 (4.2%)
Other.....
5 (20.8%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: September 14, 2004, 02:26:52 PM

Author Topic: Dragons!!!!!  (Read 5154 times)

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Offline Royal_Assassin

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Dragons!!!!!
« on: September 14, 2004, 02:26:52 PM »
I want to know in everyone's roleplaying games how dragons are viewed.  I want to know like your ideas and your views as a DM or maybe even your players ideas towards them.

SUCH AS:

Are dragons rare?  Are they common?  Are they strong?  Or easily killed?  Are they good?  Or evil? Or both?  Are they hard to tame?  Or easy to control?  Are they owned by lots of people? Or just like kings or famous knights?  Do they breath fire or ice or poison?  Or whatever they could breath?  

Also would like to know for myself in my gaming environment and for my players as a DM.  Is their many types of dragons?

Please posts all the dragon types you know or if you know too many narrow it to just a few and describe them and also tell me some background and possibly their special abilities and attributes.

I was just wondering this due to the fact that in my roleplaying game my PC's are about to experience a kinda of Fire Emblem type story and like a dragon war so any information on what everyone uses for dragons would be very helpful.

Thank you!
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Offline Scrasamax

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My Dragons
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2004, 04:20:48 PM »
In my realm Dragons are terrible forces of nature, not a beast to be sought and slain by valiant heros. In Tolkien fashion a Dragon is a despoiler of nations, bane of armies, and a terror of the ancient world, terrible beasts beyond the basic concepts of reptiles who fly and breathe flame.

Scobax - a venerable and powerful green wurm, Scobax lairs in the lofty peaks of the Thorondrim mountains where he regularly preys upon the giants and troll who make their homes among the crags. He claims the entire province of Waterdown as his demense and anyone passing through is subjected to his attention. Large enough groups draw him from his mountainous lair to offer tribute in gold, or in the flesh of their animals. Not surprisingly, Waterdeep is scarcely inhabited despite the fact that the land is temperate and well suited to farming and grazing.

Fafnir - The black dragon, smallest of the realms dragons lurks in the marshes and swamps that seperate the farmlands of the Midlands, Deepwood, and the northern marches of the Hebrides. He is a flightless dragon and reviled as a lowly beast, spewing acid upon his foes instead of a gout of flame. Attempts to extend his territory are countered by Scobax to the NE and Falkirk, a dragon to the S who seems to have sort of blood relation to Fafnir

Sol - The largest of the Dragons, Sol is a monster with a fringed head that resembles a crown. His roar shouts down the mountains and his breath is the heat of the sun upon the face of the earth and none can withstand it. For a time Sol claimed kingship over all of the dragons, but the ancient red came up from his distant lair, along with Scobax, and the white wurm Agnatha almost slew Sol, who forsook his claim of kingship over dragons. Nearly a century later, the land still bears the wounds of that battle.

The Red One - Oldest of the dragons, none know her name, only save she is the most ancient, and dwells far far away from the realm and has only been seen one two seperate accounts. One was to humble Sol, and second was to bear an egg before returning to her homeland beyond the Thorondrims.

Agnatha - the white wurm, and the most wicked of wurms, Agnatha consorts with the Fomorian, a faction of elves who succumbed to evil millinia ago and have become a new species after so long seperated from the main elven line. She will often appear in the guise of a wise women, aged and decrepid, but her age, great as it may be, is nothing to that of the red, and there is no claim against the Reds age.

Falkirk and Leopold - a mated pair of silver and gold dragons, these two make there homes in the decandent realm of Xanadu, living as lords. Often they will retire to the desert interior of the continent to express their draconic forms, and rest in deeply hidden lairs. As dragons go, they are philantropists and have done much to keep the rogue Fafnir witihn his bounds as well as on occassion teaching humans and elves some of their knowledge.

There are more dragons, but they are juveniles and spend most of their time in hiding, lest one of the elder dragons catch their scent and hunt them down and slay them to prevent further competition for resources.

Thems my dragons


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Offline Nappo

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2004, 05:20:29 PM »
That's a pretty good list of the dragons however I can think of one more...Such as:
Prismatic:In the war between good and evil, a Prismatic Dragon tends to walk the fine line of Neutrality. As far as magical tendancies, Magical spells come as natural to the Prismatic Dragon as breathe from it's body. During combat situations, a true Prismatic Dragon prefers to defeat opponents by the use of spells and other tactics.
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Offline Royal_Assassin

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2004, 05:36:47 PM »
Ok good stuff guys!  But what kinda colors are the most popular amongst dragons do they come in all colors or is it just typically red and green?

Also that dragon you were talking about doesn't fly so that means there are dragons that are much like wurms that are strictly ground based creatures, and if so how could one tell a wurm from a dragon what gives it's distinction from wurms or other big reptilius animals?

Now also dragons do lay eggs I think but, if they do how much do they lay and how big are they?  Do they protect their eggs well?  The reason being is I want to get a good background if I persay want the PC's to maybe steal a dragon's egg for instance for a quest?  Where do they lay their eggs in a nest much like a bird or more like among rocks?  Do they bury eggs like turtles?

I know about dragons pretty good but I just want to expand my outlook on them and this is why I posted this to find out more about them to better my knowledge of other DM's and their perspective to possibly use it to better the game for my PC's.

Thank-you and keep sending me more things to update myself and share the knowledge and basics of dragons with others.
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Offline Scrasamax

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2004, 08:58:52 PM »
I think one of the worst legacies of Dungeons and Dragons is the differentiation of dragons into evil chromatic and good metallic. It is a stupid idea. The popularity of Dragonlance :makes sick noises: only propagated the idea of the color based dragons.

In my realm, you cannot tell the nature of a dragon by his scales. There is just the matter of the extreme difference in perspective between a humanoid and a dragon that have to be taken into consideration.

1. Dragons are many times larger than even the largest human. To a dragon we are a nuisance akin to ants, fleas and mice. It is terribly difficult to respect something a small fraction of your own size.

2. Reproduction - My dragons, being all but immortal, are very slow to breed. There might be a new dragon born maybe once in five or six centuries. Compared to them, humans breed faster than cockroaches. Kill a few thousand humans, and they will repopulate in a few decades.

3. With such short lifespans, humans never reach true intelligence, they dont have time. The elves are afforded a small measure of respect in this regard. We are small, breed rapidly, and are not very smart...why do we deserve the respect of a creature that is greater than we?

4. Diet - A dragon is a big animal, and a large body requires signifigant more food to fuel it. Humans breed livestock at a hearty rate, and humans are seldom ever lacking in number. When it is hungry, the dragon is going to eat and humans, and their products on the menu.

5. Magic - in my realm, Dragons are innately magical, and casting a spell against a dragon must first overcome their magical resistance. The basis is assuming that a more powerful mage is going to be immune to the spells of a weaker mage. Even though my dragons do not cast spells, they are still terribly powerful in regards to their ability to fly, breath attacks, and magical resistance. Casting a spell at a dragon is akin to taking pot shots at an M1 Abrams with a .22 rifle. Not gonna dent it, just gonna piss it off.

One last note - it is important to keep one thing in perspective, Dragons are not real and there is no Greys Guide to Dragon Anatomy. (Grey being the publisher of really really thick medical manuals) It is good to discuss our opinions on the matter but must remember that it is fantasy. I only add this because I have had some gamers become angry to the point of physical hostility dicussing the particulars of dragons.


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Offline Royal_Assassin

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2004, 09:05:18 PM »
Scrasamax but what about that land dragon you were talking about?  Are some dragons just strictly land bound in your fantasy world?  And if so ummmm are they weaker in a since or possibly stronger and are they any differentin shape or breeding?
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Offline Shadoweagle

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2004, 09:06:12 PM »
I see dragons not as something which is seen and hunted often, and barely at all.

In my opinion, dragons are not creatures, but more gods. Extremely rare (rare enough that each dragon is known by name, like gods), and near unkillable. They are above and beyond the concept of order and chaos, good and evil, and work on their own, infathomable logic. A dragon usually keeps to its own devices, picking out a realm in which it lives. They WILL destroy the foolhardy who seek to enter the dragons realms, and they can NEVER be killed by a single bieng, or even a small group, unless that single bieng was another dragon, of course. Some dragons may choose to look over a small community of humans, and some may choose to attack humans on occasion - but they are not motivated to do so by anything but their own desire to learn. A single dragon could Raze a city or eradicate an army without much trouble.

As said before, Dragons are like Deities to me. Rare, often silent biengs which keep to their own devices. Magic courses through their veins as much as blood, and they are powerful enough to tear down a mountain. They are the unkillable.

Basically, I agree with scras's thoughts :P

Though in my opinion, I think Dragons may show curiousity to things which seem strange to them. A dragon may not smite a single human who climbs to its domain to speak with it, as it is not how the dragon would think 'cowardly' humans act. Thus the human will have peaked the dragons curiousity, and might even allow the human to speak with it. If the human has a request, the dragon may even grant it. (Which could be an interesting roleplaying Idea, actually: Your hometown is under seige by demons from another realm! The town has absolutely no way of defeating such deadly foes, and all they can do is hold them off for a few weeks! The mayor has begged you, as the local 'hero' to gather up a group of two or three others to leave in the middle of the night, slip through the demonic armies, and make your way to the snowy peak to the east, where it is said the great god (dragon) 'Le'nithal' lies. You MUST seek counsel with this god, and persuade him to aid the town in its most dire time of need! This will include slipping past the demons, travelling to the mountains and meeting rogues of all sorts, scaling a mountain where unheard of beasts dwell and actually CONFRONTING a dragon. And not to mention, if the demons hear of your escaping for aid, they will undoubtedly send scouts to follow. Hmm... I might enjoy that kind of roleplay :D)
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Offline Royal_Assassin

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2004, 09:14:32 PM »
So Shadoweagle you see dragons as a since to where they have names like humans.  But see I don't know where I have seen this but I always believed dragons being wide-spread amongst the world and there was many races of dragons such as: Ice Dragons, Fire Dragons, Zombie Dragons, Red Dragons, Green Dragons and Emperor Dragons.  Then humans and dragons fought in a big battle and the humans eventually won and killed most of them off.

Then dragons became rarities to find and see and they were very wise and powerful.  I like your viewpoint very much you and scrasamax's too.  

But yet another question what is your viewpoint of the history of dragons and how did they come to be?  Did they evolve or they ruled before humans were around?  

And does anybody find dragons to be friendly in the fantasy realm of play?  My friend thought that a few people would find them calm creatures able to aid humans such as in battles and stuff.
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Offline Shadoweagle

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2004, 09:24:31 PM »
I added a bit to my post :P

And yes, the dragons may have names for themselves, but the only names the mortals know of them, are the ones the mortals label them WITH.

Dragons, to my view, came with the birth of the world. Placed on there by the gods themselves as caretakers. Since they are basically the children of the gods, this DOES make them gods to a degree. Some millenia later, other races started to evolve. The other races grew, and eventually thought they owned the lands and were the most intelligent of it. But in truth, they know NOTHING of the land. They theorised physics and chemistry, and by setting and believing these laws, they bound themselves by it. The dragons do not believe the laws of physics to a large extent, and thus are capable of so much more.

Some dragons may be friendly to a certain community, but that is their own choice, not the sway of the humans.
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Offline CaptainPenguin

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2004, 09:35:19 PM »
The thing is, though, the Dragon is not one set idea-
The D&D dragon is stupid. Simply stupid. Why are they defined by color? Why can't a red dragon be good? Is there something inherently evil about the color red?!

I don't like to define dragons too stiffly. If you say one dragon is this, and another dragon is this, in the end, there is no mystery, no magic about a dragon. If the Great and Terrifying Ichnalon is suddenly known as an "Ice Dragon", well, he's not so Great and Terrifying anymore, at least to my mind.

Dragons must be mysterious and godlike. D&D Dragons are simple, easy to understand, and weak. There is very little you can not understand about a Red Dragon, once you know it's a Red Dragon. But if the dragon just happens to be red, and the redness doesn't necessarily signify anything about the dragon, that dragon is that much more mysterious, more magical.

None of this is really what I want to say...
Maybe this- I don't believe in organizing dragons too much. Organizing something gives the assumption that it is known, and that it is well-known enough to be defined. And if dragons are well-known enough to be defined, they just be what I want them to be.
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Offline Scrasamax

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2004, 11:31:21 PM »
I concur with the Captains opinion that dragons should not be too stiffly categorized. In my realm there is a difference between a Dragon and a dragon, but I wil address that in a moment.

Eggs - Why eggs? The first and main reason is that dragons are most commonly associated with reptiles and reptiles lay eggs, with the exception of a few snake breeds (dont ask, I dont remember). Fantasy is also depicting dragons as being egg layers. Being an egg layer means that the dragon does not have to worry about the difficulties of bearing young to term, and suffer a shorter period of debilitation due to late term pregnancy, nursing, and other etc. But, as Dragons uniformly seem to be rare, the egg presents a downfall, it most be constantly guarded.

Dragons and Live birth - Scientists have made some interesting discoveries with the pelvic bones of the big sauropod dinosaurs (read - Apatasaurus) which lead to theories that some dinosaurs gave birth to live young, specifically, the biggest species of dinosaurs. It would not be unfeasible for a dragon to carry a single baby dragon to term and give birth to it in a safe place, as up until that point inside the mothers armored body is probably one of the safest places in creation. That would bring up details as dragons nursing their young (dragon milk anyone?) and fierce maternal instincts that do not end with the hatching.

Draconic Flight and Landbound Wurms - without hobnailing dragons into a set of predefined rules, it should be taken into account that the eastern dragon, or oriental dragon is wingless, but can fly, and western or occidental dragons have wings and can fly. However, their descriptions and weight make their wings much too small to be strong enough to support them in flight, so magic is involved in either case. Wings or no, if a dragon wants to fly, hes gonna fly. In my setting, the black wurm Fafnir cannot fly, but he does have wings. This makes him a mockery and a joke among the other dragons, and also makes him nasty even by dragon standards.

Dracomorphology
The Dragon - a hexapod with forelimbs, hind legs, and leathery pinions
The Wurm - A serpent with either vestigial/atrophied or no limbs and a long powerful body
The Wyvern - Leathey wings in the manner of a bat, and stroke hind legs.

The dragon form (occidental) is by far the most common, but also the least likely by real world knowledge. There are no six limbed vertebrate animals. Everything with an internal skeleton has no more than four limbs. This also renders the pegasus invalid as well.

The wurm (oriental) is well known in Oriental fantasy, but lacking in European fantasy. Why? There are no big snakes in Europe.

The Wyvern...well...it is a reptile form of a bat, a well known flyer in Europe. Dont know much in this area.

Dragons and dragons - The Dragon is the enigmatic beast that defies explanation, and the monster of terror that is the despoiler of kingdoms, repository of ancient lore and spewer of fiery breath. These are unique and one of a kind beasts. Epochs migh be marked by their births and deaths. (The Year 147 beyond the death of Tammuz the Fiery Golden)

The dragon on the other hand is a catchall term for any especially large reptile in my game. Crocs and gators are called river dragons, and there are dragons that follow the occidental form of four legs and two wings, but they are dramatically smaller, lack a breath weapon and are the equivalent to large predators in intelligence. Some take up arms to hunt and slay these lesser dragons to armor from their hides, necklaces from their teeth and trophies of their skulls. Meanwhile the skull of a Dragon would easily be large enough for a man to make a home in.

Whew, you all got alot for two cents today


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Offline Adel

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2004, 11:57:23 AM »
In my opinion Dragons as well as all other creatures that can be defined in mythozoology are only what our own imaginations make them out to be. I have some friends that believe that true dragons are the ones that are talked about in ancient folklore, and that all other dragons be it in D&D or in someother gaming system are cheap knock- offs. I however disagree with this opinion. As the Captian said dragons like many mythological creatures are not to be completley understood and defined. For instance in reading through most of your remarks many of you have descriped in great detail many aspects of what is believed to be a Anglo european form of dragon. Unless I have just missed it and forgive me if I have no one has mentioned the oriental style drangons yet. Dragons can only be defined as far as someones imagination takes them. Dragons can be as small as mice and numerous as the stars if one only wants them to be.That is what is wonderful about such creatures They are as undefinable and in many cases unpredictable as the human imagination.


Also as we grow learn and change so does our interpretation as to what the creatures look like as well as what they symbolize  (example: when I was little Dragons were pink and purple flying lizards that lived under this rainbow in the sky.) I look back at myself now and laugh. However, if another child came up to me and told me that dragons were green with red eyes and that they lived on pluto I would have argued with him until my face was blue. As I have grown older I have come to understand that all opinions and not just my own are benifical to the whole. I can't define the term dragon and what it looks like because depending upon the situation, what mood I am in, and the players involved it is likely to come out different everytime.

Thats my take sorry so long winded! :D
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Offline Royal_Assassin

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2004, 01:09:55 PM »
Thanks that really helped me out a lot.  I found out from some research that dragons in the Wizards of the Coast termonology are killers and evil creatures sought to only kill.  But also that dragons are in some cases very wise and even read books much like a human would.  Their is a magic card ooooo I forget the name but it is a legendary dragon card and he is sitting down with reading classes and reading a book it was something along the lines of nicholas something maybe.

So another question rises up.  Are all dragons primitive or are some in such good nature that they read and gain knowledge like we do.  

Also J.R.R. Tolkien pictured dragons as human flesh eaters and made it seem as if they had a nature to kill.  But he also made them very territorial and very rare to find and see.

Thank you scrasamax for the loads of info and everyone else.  So far I am surprised to see nobody believes them to be human allies and friends.
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Offline Scrasamax

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2004, 04:12:14 PM »
Ah...I do remember that book reading dragon, Nicol Bolas, and the carhage I caused with him and a fire whip. Tap, deal one damage, opponent discards entire hand of cards. Them was the days.

I did mention the Oriental dragons, but I only touched on the briefly (see dragon flight, and the wurm) since it seemed the the occidental dragon was the focus of the discussion. I like the oriental dragon, but it seems that in the division of east and west, the basic dragon forms are incompatable, but that could have to do with their respecitve sources. Occidental Dragons = physical incarnations of sin/the devil/enemies of mankind whereas Oriental Dragons = Rivers, beneficial elemental forces.

Tolkiens dragons were created by Morgoth, the most powerful and dissidant of the gods and served as his heaviest troops, along side of the balrogs. They born and bred to evil deeds.

The Dragons of Pern make an interesting foil, being smaller and more friendly to humans, and some dragons were actually the size of small dogs and cats. I think the book was Dragonsong of Pern or something like that.

It is my personal opinion that dragons are vast creatures, more powerful than we petty mortals. But then again, when I was just a lad, my dragons came from The Hobbit, Dragonslayer, and the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon.


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Offline Royal_Assassin

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Dragons!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2004, 04:29:29 PM »
Yeah, that was it scrasamax Nicol Bolas.  It is a nice card I always wished I had a legendary dragon.  Yeah also in that Disney movie Mulan I think it was called they had a dragon in it.  It was a dragon that was the guardian of her family and it was sent down by her ancestors to aid her in battle and in life.  This dragon for those of you that didn't see the movie was very small about the size of an average football.  So I guess dragons do come in all shapes and sizes.

I got another question that could also be answered by everyones opinions me and my PC's today had a vast arguement over weither or not dragons can have 2 or 4 legs.  I told them all dragons walk on all fours.  They told me they strongly believed that dragons have only 2 legs and small arms and wings.  They also told me they have heard of dragons with smooth back and no scales that lurked in dense jungles.  If anybody has heard of that dragon please further inform me on it's characteristics.  They also wanted me to ask if anybody has ever heard of a dragon that is strictly waterbound and is a fish like dragon without wings and somewhat of a leviathan type creature.

I also was watching a movie my neighbor let me borrow called Reign of Fire.  That movie strictly viewed dragons as very harmful creatures to humans and kind of made them seem very viscious creatures that breath fire and kill humans.  They also stated that Female dragons are more rare than male dragons and the male dragons are a lot smaller than the female.  Are your ideas of dragons the same way?  Does anybody think the size varies depending on the sex of the dragon?  Or that there are more male dragons than there are females?

Thanks again.

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Offline CaptainPenguin

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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2004, 04:51:10 PM »
Err...
Are you possibly a bit confused? Dragons don't exist. They aren't real. The whole reason we're able to be so differing about dragons is that they aren't real creatures that exist in our world.

Adel- we talked a bit about Oriental dragons. Pay attention! :)

Are all dragons "primitive"... I believe the assumption was made by many that, since they are godlike beings, they are intelligent. I believe that is a reasonable assumption to make, is it not? Not all evil things are primitive- take a look at Goldfinger or Dr. No of James Bond fame. Of course, the case could also be made that ancient legends portrayed them as supernatural animals of a sort.

Dragons could be human allies and friends- but they aren't necessarily that. I mean, humans can also be allies and friends, but not all of them are. Are you seeing what I mean? It's not so black-and-white. There is a kind of dragon (in Earth legends) that is beneficial, the Oriental kind- they are beneficial nature spirits.

And a note to Scras on Tolkien- Morgoth and the Valar are not "gods", per se. Some men (and orcs) worship them as so, but, according to the Valar themselves, this is an abberation. They have powers over the world, true, but Tolkien emphasized that the worship of Valar as gods was an evil thing, and the only being that was truly to be worshipped was Iluvatar.
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Offline Royal_Assassin

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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2004, 07:45:59 PM »
So therefore Captain Penguin you do believe that dragons are somewhat of an ally to humans not always but they are sometimes.  

Finally a person who thought that I thought I was alone on that one.  But I lean a little more towards they are mystical creatures that hold great power and that swayed my vote.  

Also I do know that dragons are not real things man.  I am not a super nerd kinda of guy that is like actually literally living in a fantasy world like I do know some people though that are like that sadely enough.  No I just want to get a better perspective and know possibly all the aspects of a dragon and it's nature to better my roleplaying knowledge.  That is why I posted the thread.  

I really want to better myself on the different dragons to apply a wide variety in my roleplaying world to my PC's.  Plus I think I mentioned this before saying I am setting up a huge Dragon War soon in the game.  So all this informationg is helping a great deal.  That is also why I appreciate Scrasamax's different varity he threw out there.

Strolen if you see this I would really love to here your input seeing is how you run this site.  You probably know a great deal of dragons even though I was looking at stats and Captain Penguin you put a lot of time into this site.  You got more posts than Strolen himself.  Well thanks again.

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Offline CaptainPenguin

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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2004, 08:20:47 PM »
Quote
So therefore Captain Penguin you do believe that dragons are somewhat of an ally to humans not always but they are sometimes.


Yes, that's what I said.
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Offline Ria Hawk

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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2004, 10:50:26 PM »
Ah, dragons.  

To my way of thinking, and in my gameworld, dragons are as gods.  Mere mortals cannot fathom their ways.  My dragons are ancient, mysterious, immortal, and have their own agendas.  Mortals are just pawns to them, if they deign to notice them at all.  You can frustrate a dragon, you can even imprison a dragon, given enough power.  But you can't kill a dragon, not permanently.  Most of what are considered "dragons" by an ignorant world are lesser beings.  And sometimes their aims coincide with the best interests of humans, and sometimes they don't.  A dragon may be seen as a dire enemy in one generation, and a benign influence the next.

And there are only a few True Dragons.  
Ralchek and Yorantha, called Aureus and Argenta by mortals now.  At the present, they are seen as friends of man, but a century ago, they were feared as So and Sana, They Who Would Burn All.
The Four, currently known as The Fell Ones.  However, before they were imprisoned for a thousand years, they were the Alchimae, and praised by those who would work magic.
Meijit, the Wise One.  He rarely interacts with other True Dragons, and with rarer still with mortals.  It is said that he has died five times.  
And one or two others.
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Offline SleeperCell

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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2004, 11:51:30 PM »
Dragons....by far my favorite aspect of any Fantasy setting.

In the world I created, Dragons can be cruel and destructive or helpfull and kind. Whatever type a party encounters, all Dragons are treated with the utmost respect/fear and even helpfull ones should not be disturbed carelessly.
Since my Realm's history is linked to the 4 elements and Dragons were the first living creature to inhabit it, I created Elemental Dragons (surprise surprise....not terribly original but  liked the concept).
What I did was create one Dragon per element but since they existed since the realm's creation, I diluted their "bloodline" to reflect the passage of time. So, the Air Dragon's offsprings became Sky Dragons, which led to the Storm Dragon which led to the Wind Drake. The Water Dragon became the Sea Dragon which became the Ice Dragon then the River Drake (same with Fire and Earth).

The purest of Dragons are extremely rare and although the lesser Dragons are more numerous, they are still a rare sight.

I made my Dragons extremely intelligent and powerfull but each one has it's own motivations and purpose so no one can simply tell of a Dragon's intentions simply by looking at it's skin (most of you are right....the D&D Dragon has lost it's mystery) so you could end up with a cruel or benevolent Ice Dragon and hopefully, the party would have plenty of time to figure it out.
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Offline manfred

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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2004, 05:25:10 AM »
(Let me remind an old, but very fine scientific discussion of Dragon Muck)


According to me, dragons are not gods, but are very close to them for the lowly mortals. They need not be misunderstood by the humanoids, because they are so powerful, old, mysterious and what not. Dragons are "simply" another sentient life-form. As large reptiles, they are much different from the small bipedal mammals. (As for anathomy, I imagine four legs, the fore-legs more capable of handling things... but that is my view.)

With all their great power, dragons are technologically inept, and neglect this part of civilisation. However impressive, their homes are just great holes, and they use hardly any tools, as if a dragon would need any, right? While humanoids are much weaker, and often simply fast-food, if well organised, they can be frustrating and spoil a nice day. Some dragons avoid them already, some hate them even more, with a meager respect for the nice toys they can create. Luckily for the twin-legs, dragons do not consider them a real threat for their race. Should this happen, humanoids would be exterminated. (But some think that dragons have an unknown agreement with the gods, humanoids being a part of it.)

As for intelligence, dragons have problems grasping technology, and can look stupid around it (there is a fairy-tale of a hungry dragon, and a smart woodsman, that traps him, and extorts for treasure). But they are far from naive. The greatest danger to any dragon in another dragon. It is for this reason, that most dragons are masters of manipulation, and often see through lies of lesser beings. Negotiation and intimidating is (besides combat) their primary weapon, and most humanoids are too weak of mind to effectively parley with them.


And one more option:
Dragons are innately magical, and magic is a large part of their power. Looking at all those varying descriptions, what if they are able to influence the physical form of their young before hatching, so they are slightly different from their parent in a desired way? Who knows, maybe their wings were created in this way! Different dragon "families" may differ significantly, in shape as in size. Dragons as a race could be obsessed with physical perfection, striving to create the perfect being. It's genetic engineering, baby. ;)

This goes nicely with a lonely, intolerant attitude to others, as one works on the great project. Dragon "society" is really an euphemism, most work for themselves only. Children are raised in great love, until the parent discovers the young one is far from perfect; some are killed, most have to live on their own from then on. The creation of the "true" child can possibly take hundreds of years of intense concentration, so no wonder they hate so much to be disturbed, or even woken up (maybe it is a kind of meditation on the proper form of the sibling?).

If there are dragon males and females, but the whole race started to produce their children through "cloning", they may have abandoned the Old Way of mating. It would be rare for a pair to come together, or even to have offspring. The stereotype of stealing beautiful high-ranking humanoid women may make sense now! The lonely dragon may simply desire female company, without the problems with a she-dragon. (Hmmm... now would the she-dragon kidnap a prince for herself? :what: )
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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2004, 06:59:38 PM »
Quote from: "manfred"
The stereotype of stealing beautiful high-ranking humanoid women may make sense now! The lonely dragon may simply desire female company, without the problems with a she-dragon. (Hmmm... now would the she-dragon kidnap a prince for herself? :what: )


Yes.  Yes she would, and I now have a wonderfully twisted idea for an adventure that I must play with.
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Offline CaptainPenguin

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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2004, 10:16:00 PM »
Quote
This goes nicely with a lonely, intolerant attitude to others, as one works on the great project. Dragon "society" is really an euphemism, most work for themselves only. Children are raised in great love, until the parent discovers the young one is far from perfect; some are killed, most have to live on their own from then on. The creation of the "true" child can possibly take hundreds of years of intense concentration, so no wonder they hate so much to be disturbed, or even woken up (maybe it is a kind of meditation on the proper form of the sibling?).


What an interesting idea. Explains so many behaviors, and gives them a strangely clinical, evil bent- like a race of mad scientists or something. Maybe they don't have gods- maybe they have Buddhist-like religion, revering a sort of Dragonbuddha, the only dragon ever to achieve perfection or whatnot.
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Offline manfred

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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2004, 06:17:13 AM »
Quote from: "CaptainPenguin"
Maybe they don't have gods- maybe they have Buddhist-like religion, revering a sort of Dragonbuddha, the only dragon ever to achieve perfection or whatnot.


Well, perhaps it is the perfect dragon, that is yet to be born. And, it could be YOUR own baby! The prospect of fathering a deity can change a lot...
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Offline manfred

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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2004, 06:38:04 AM »
Quote from: "Shadoweagle"
They (humanoids) theorised physics and chemistry, and by setting and believing these laws, they bound themselves by it. The dragons do not believe the laws of physics to a large extent, and thus are capable of so much more.


This is very off-topic, but I have to mention it: so humanoids invented their sciences to be able to accept and understand the world. Magic, by many (but not all) definitions, goes beyond the laws of science. So wizards go beyond the laws that make the world fit into their little heads... does it not mean all magic-users would be crazy, the more potent, the closer to insanity? Apprentices would start with little quirks of course, that grow over time.
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