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Author Topic: Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?  (Read 3259 times)

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Offline MudSlinger

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« on: December 04, 2002, 07:27:23 PM »
So here we go a new campagin world that I am busting my head open over.  Here is what I have so far:

For one reason or another the gods left.  Poof. No more.  Good and evil, law and chaos all have left this plane of reality for greener pastures. All, that is but the following:

One of the Good deities stayed behind because he/she felt compassion for the poor bastards left behind.

One deity of Evil also stayed behind in hopes of becoming more powerful and nasty.

On thier way out, the deities promoted two mortals, one lawful and of course one of chaos into demi-gods. They  have thier own agendas.(HELP!)

Not to be left out, a greater deity of true netrual also stayed behind. (need help here as well)

Now an unforseen side effect has appeared to make life REALLY interesting. When the deities left they also took away the ability for mortals to tap hidden energies to make permanent magic items.  As time goes by, magic items lose thier powers, spells lose thier power etc.

Can anybody help flesh this out?

Offline Strolen

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2002, 09:49:27 PM »
Egads, plenty of opportunity for any number of things.

On a quick look seems like you could have two scenerios. One, sort of Tolkien-like one section of the country would develop Good behind the demi-gods and just go from there. To cross a border is to cross to lawlessness, sort of like Mordor under evil rule. Both would only clash on the borders with good almost always on the defensive trying to keep the evil from growing.

Or you could have evil being more subversive and subtle and good trying to root it out (or vice-versa if you wish). Corruption appears in force only occasionally to try and gain a foothold somewhere but is the underdog. Perhaps it suddenly sprouts somewhere instantly defeating Good creating a Mordorish place. Or it could remain subtle with a corruption occuring here and there and the obvious culprit being the evil demi-god.

With the help of the true gods, I would imagine that evil would have some sort of staging area that they are almost completely safe in. A place of such pure evil that it is almost impossible for good to overcome it. The reasoning for the good god to stay behind tells me that that god wouldn't be such a great help except in dire need. He/she would grant boons and favors but not necessarily come into play directly unless it was forced to while the evil god is actively seeking dominance in the world. Could be a really dark and dangerous place with many new creatures being sprouted to serve the dark ones.

Like the idea of no permanant magic. That could be one of the gifts of the good god, a weapon of pure, unfailing magical power. One of the greatest gifts that could be given.

Will sit on it a little and see if anything crops up.

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Offline Agar

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2002, 05:03:42 PM »
Hmm. People raised to Demi-gods with their own agendas. Let's see if we can play twenty questions to develop thier stories.

1.  What are thier genders? Do demi-gods HAVE genders? Fewer women tend towards chaos, but the ones that do are HOT! Law seems to be an equal opprotunity employer.

2. What did they leave behind? Families, children, spouses? Pets?

3. Why were they chosen? Were they leaders, generals, religeous figures, zealots? Were they just doing thier thing and the god said "Yes, just like that! You're hired!" Were they trying or were they recruited?

4. What do they know that we don't? Do they know why the gods left? Do they know why they were needed? Do they know what to do?

5. What are their plans? If they know what to do, are they going to do it? What do they hope to accomplish?

6. Do they have any grudges? People they dated, spouse that left, slights real or imagined?

7. How are they handling the job? Can they get help? Can they MAKE help? Is it overwhelming they? (Next on Demi-gods gone wild... :twisted: )

8. How much power do they have? Smiting? Creation/Destruction? Empowerment? Unaging? Invunerable? Leap tall windmills in a single bound?

9. Where do they stay? Empty palaces of the gods in the heavens? Their old house?

10. What do they miss? If they have no regrets leaving mortal life, why are they in charge of one aspect of it? Do they still hunt down fugitives? Do they still hang out at the bar?

11. What keeps them in check? If they "screw up" would the god come back? Are they locked in an all consuming struggle with thier counter part?

12. How's thier relationship? Are they just doing thier job, doing what they must, but not always liking it? Are they friends/lovers? Were they before? Are they strangers or even enimies?

13. What do they demand? Do they want/need worship? Tithes? Sacrifices? Capital law is still law...

14. Are they recognised? What are the preists saying these days?

15. Are they helping anyone? Are they consolidating old religons? Are they aiding nations? Are they picking up the tab for thier old drinking buddies?

16. What are they using? Do they have any tools, weapons, or pets they keep to make the simple tasks easier? Are they using new forces? Can they command the elements, winds, seas, the earth? Anyone chucking lightning bolts?

17. Do they have any regrets? Never had a family? Never got to open their brothel? Still a virgin?

18. Are they abusing thier powers? They recently been raised to demi-gods, are they playing with their new toys? Have they had any accidents? Could they fix it/ clean it up?

19. Are they vunerable or do they have restrictions? Think of the genies shackles. "You're now the Demi-god of Law. That means no more poker on friday night. No games of chance at all." or "Yo, uh - huh huh, you're like the Demi-god of chaos now, so like, I hope you didn't like chess or anything, ok?"

20. What do they do for fun? CAN they have fun? Mingle with the mortals? Get Jiggy? Slap together a platapus?

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Offline manfred

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2002, 04:27:16 AM »
Can answer only a few questions at once, so fail this test.

The New Ones
The demigods were once humans before, and are somewhat weaker. They have few direct
worshippers, not because they are NEW, but their agendas (Law&Chaos) themselves draw
few people into the fold. At least so do I envision this. But most people are oriented
one way or another, more or less. So they are many that follow one of these two ideals,
even if few are fully devoted.

Law- I imagine the demigod of Law as an old king, that ruled just and fair for a long time and gave up his rule to his follower (as his own laws declared). This way his way of life is rewarded. Now he is an old traveler that walks from town to town, from kingdom to kingdom, to help people make their lives more safe and predictable. He walks and talks and spreads ideas, how should all behave one to another, and how to safeguard it.

He likes to watch law-courts and all kinds of discussions about rules and sometimes intervenes to set matters right. As he commands great respect and authority, few would reject his ideas.


Chaos- I imagine him(her?) as a young sorcerer, master of the ever-changing magics and being of countless shapes. Contrary to the things mentioned before, it is not the Evil god that creates the most new creatures. Chaos is greatest creator of new things of any kind.

He likes to watch great celebrations and great disasters alike, for they are both the stuff of Chaos. I cannot say that he would stay always in one place or travel the world, for there are no set rules for this being, and none will ever be. Mostly just tries to make everything more interesting for himself and everybody else. Diversity is his love, birth of new things is his moment. What is his purpose? Whatever comes to his mind right now.


The Old Ones
They both keep their old worshippers and may get new ones. While they command greater power
than the demigods, there is no reason to strike against them(see Evil).

Good- ???sorry no ideas for Good tonight.

Evil- needs defining what is so evil about this god. Note that here on Earth we have no Evil gods, just ask their worshippers. Maybe two deities with somewhat overlapping agendas, but enough different to make an agreement impossible? So both religions see the other one as definition of evil and sacrilege etc. If we make Evil evil, it will surely not be the greatest creator of new creatures, having enough useful tools for this. But if Chaos spawns something useful, no reason not to use it. As for Law, some rules have to exist to allow for some stability. Same things are true about Good.  

The Left Behind
The ex-priests and the ex-followers of those that left. What happens to them?
- they may have still some power. If a High Priest commanded certain powers all life long, he may know how to create them, if from different sources and weaker.
- many may turn to magical arts, the dirty magics they formerly detested, trying to return to their former power (surely they have practice in magic, the divine one)
- they still may retain their authority, even as a moral figure
- some commit suicide
- some simply don't survive and die
- some get killed by followers
- some turn to madness
- some begin to hate their former god
- some give up to become farmers and such
- some convert
- some pretend to still keep their powers and their deity
- some continue to preach their ideals
...
- quite many followers may (and will) turn to ehm, dislike those who keep godly guidance...

The Cult Of Hate tries to attack in any way all priests that seem to be deity-supported. From philosophical discussions to outright killing, all is acceptable.
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Offline Agar

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2002, 03:08:11 PM »
While figuring out what the gods are up to is a great help and a great idea, btw :D , the players are unlikely to meet any of these beings. The most common source of divine influence the players are likely to meet, or even be part of, will be the priests. Given the great variety of interpertations for why the gods did one thing or another, each preist is likely to have thier own view and way of handling the situation.

Did the gods leave a message for leaving? Did they tell anyone or everyone? Would any preist in his right mind claim NOT to know the will of the god(s)?

Many of the religions I've been exposed to these days are simply groups that get together to belong to the group, as if belonging made them better people. I've met rare individuals that actually believe and act on thier beliefs and try to convey that they are trying to do good because of their beliefs. And none of these people who are moved by thier beliefs have been the religious leaders.

That may be different in a fantasy world, where gods are possibly more active, interested, or present than the gods in our world. Anything a person can see, walk up to, or touch is much more an influence than the unseen.

Organized religion seems less likely to hold up in a world were gods can and do answer some questions with personal apperances. "If your god is so all knowing and all powerful, can see everything and is everywhere, why does he need 10% of my cash to keep this place open?" Add in the difficulty of having an organized religion devoted to chaos (the difinitive opposite to orgainization) and anyone who preaches what they don't believe will soon be exposed.

Each preist is likely ot have thier own story. Look at some or all of the possibilies above and decide what they believe. Being left behind by a schizm of, well, godlike proportions is going to shake the beliefs of nearly everyone.
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Offline Ria Hawk

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2002, 08:44:33 PM »
And what about the people who claim to talk to the gods, and aren't priests?  The ones that are considered mad, liars, or just gifted?  What happens if they notice the gods are gone?  Do they tell what they know and get denounced as madmen, liars, and/or heretics?  Try to blackmail a less than honest preist?  Make a general nuisance of themselves?  All of the above?
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Offline manfred

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2002, 03:04:38 AM »
Forgotten to mention that these demigods may not even know about their blessed status. Perhaps all they do now seems to work perfectly, but why should they think twice about it?

Law could miss the point of yet another celebration in his honour.

Chaos may not be even told. Why, it just adds more chaos somewhere in the future, when he finds out he is immortal and a Power. The kind of birthday-present chaotic deities are likely to give when leaving.  :)  

Law simply works at what he percieves as his duty, Chaos does whatever suits him right now.


Imagine someone would find this out before the poor demigods and manipulate them slightly. Simply moving Law into a chaotic area may overthrow the government. Placing Chaos anywhere would cause chaos. Somehow getting them to work against the another may cause major catastrophes. Push that heroes inside to solve it. Its just two people arguing about ideals, so why does it start a war?
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Offline Strolen

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2002, 12:24:11 PM »
Quote from: "manfred"
Forgotten to mention that these demigods may not even know about their blessed status. Perhaps all they do now seems to work perfectly, but why should they think twice about it?


That is deep. Could you imagine a demigod not knowing what kind of power he/she could wield. Just walking through a city could lead to a spiral of events with unknown outcomes. Chaos walking through a farm causes a two headed cow to be born months later, leading to the announcement of a curse on town, leading to a peasant living on a mission to try and end the curse, leading to him cutting down some trees on the side of the road to make a temporary lodging to keep him from the rain overnight, leading to the king traveling on that road weeks later and an assassin is able to use that small opening in the trees that the peasant chopped down to let loose his killing arrow.

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Offline manfred

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2002, 06:03:07 AM »
You mean the Butterfly Effect? More than possible, especially with Chaos, but it could be somewhat hard to solve. As a player, it would be a nightmare to find someone who leaves traces weeks later  :wink:
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Offline Ria Hawk

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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2002, 03:21:44 PM »
Well, you'd also have the stuff that happened right away that was fairly wierd, things that would usually be considered freak occurrances that all happen at the same time wherever Chaos is.  Freak weather, sudden runs of good or bad luck at the local gambling spot, and completely random things.  That way you'd have a fairly obvious trail to follow once someone caught on.  "Just follow the wierdness."  "Yeah, we don't like that guy.  Every time he comes by this way, something's gonna go crazy." Etc.
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Offline DaWergyling

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2002, 07:56:52 PM »
:twisted: !SADISTIC PLOT TWIST! :twisted:

The gods decided to screw u and make a new world, so that they may be able to triumph over their foes in another world, because there was a pretty equal power struggle in this world. That could be because:

One god made their own tiny little enclosed world where they have nobody but THEIR followers, so they would not die from lack of them.

There has been lots of power fluctuations (As in i almost kill you, then everyone almost kills me before i totally kill you, then I'm not a threat anymore or so they think, etc.) over the past few millenia and they have only been repeating, so they all agreed to create a new world. Just to make sure none of the other gods cheat by still using the old world  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  they're going to make it go ><>>boom<<><, unless the heros and the party can make all of the gods positive that that person will give them victory in the old realm.

(Anyway, that answers WHY pretty well)

The last one also adds something to do, well a LOT to do, because you have to persuade ALL GODS. Any opinions on this?
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Offline Agar

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2002, 08:30:28 PM »
Considering the gods are feeling that this world is useless, and that the gods can't agree much on anything, ( "You did what with my lighter?" ) convinceing gods is going to be a mighty task that seems to land squarely in the impossible zone.

But, before we consider the likely hood of success, consider how much you really want to run this idea. What you're proposing is to have the players stroll up to the gods preparing for exodus and play off all of thier natures to keep what they have and not trash your world. That seems like it will involve the players have a good working background of what the gods motivations are and their personalites. This also leads into sever hours of sitting around debating amongst your friends on what happens. If that works for you, go at it, for me, that's a preety dull day.
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Offline DaWergyling

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2003, 05:25:16 PM »
True, but it still could be a pretty interesting and possibly complex task, especially if all the gods see you talking to the other ones.
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Offline CaptainPenguin

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2003, 02:28:01 PM »
What about what happens when Law comes around?
Maybe something like this:

Plants begin growing in symmetrical patterns
Sagging brick walls straighten themselves
Seems to become neater and cleaner
Rusted metal brightens
Painted colors brighten
Alternate cycles of rain and sun seem to occur
Animals start acting in predictable patterns
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Offline manfred

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2003, 06:42:52 AM »
No luck for the gamblers, no bad luck either (you get a 6 every 6th throw).
Things like sunshine and rain at once, producing a rainbow do not happen.
There seems to be no dawn or dusk, it seems it is only night and day, little in-between.
Smoke rises upwards, does not diffuse (unless the wind changes it).
There are no Random Encounters. :wink:
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Offline DaWergyling

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Gods? What Gods? And what happend to my magic items?
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2004, 05:38:24 PM »
So... As I believe it has been mentioned, or at least insinuated, that it will be pretty interesting to see what happens when a part of either force does NOT forsake it. I.e..... Suddenly everyone in the world, even the most despicable villians, join together in celebratiion, love, and the preservation of prosperity within the world.

Also, the why might also be that this plane of existance is bound for armageddon, regardless of divine intervention. Perhaps since all the creatures other than deities are heavily linked to the plane they exist upon, and bringing a fragment of the corrupted plane (makes me think of the cataclysmic crash of a computer world.... sounds a bit like The Matrix....)
will only bring further destruction. Wouldn't it be odd if the followers of evil deities were suddenly delivered from the apocalypse? Of course, with the aforementioned reason for deserting the plane, it is more the spreading of destruction than promotiing worship.
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Offline MoonHunter

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There are a few options to explain why...
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2004, 12:58:30 AM »
1) Another more powerful set of Gods moved into the plane.  These alien gods are now "adapting" themselves to the new world.  After what would be a "quick fight" the new gods destroyed or routed the old gods.  

2) A higher, more universal diety came down and said, "This world is mine. Serve me or go away" Those that wished to fight were casually crushed by the Universal dieties legion of minion.  Others opted to leave gracefully.  Some have been "elevated" to being a new minion of the Universal diety. The Universal Diety is only now sending his first herald to the world.  He, and those who follow him, are the only ones with access to clerical powers.  The other dieties who were once worshiped are granting lesser clerical powers to their priests.

3) One of the Chaotic dieties was going to destroy everything.  So the other dieties fought, defeated, and bound him to a lower plane.  On its way down, it grabbed the fabric of the universe and "wedged" it in the barrier that was supposed to hold it in.  Now no dieties can penetrate that barrier to reach their worldly followers. Their worldly followers are now trapped on the same side of the barrier as the severely weakened chaotic diety.  The last pools of clerical energies are drying up.  Eventually, only those bound to the Chaotic diety will have clerical power.  

4) Like 3, except the Chaotic diety has no power at all. Having an inside track, the circle of wizards decided how to best deal with the situation.  A cabal of magic users are stepping up to be "clerics".  They say their diety has purged the world of false gods and false clerical power.  They are now the one true way.  Their faith is rules based, with lots of moral rules of obligation and social recipication (supporting the noble and caste systems).  People are begining to flock to these new priests, as their old priests have no power to hold them.
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