I actually quite like this faith system in that it provides a somewhat refreshing take on morals/life principles. I particularly like the afterlife and myth sections. However, like some of the previous comments, I have some problem with the concept that there could be evil altruists. Go to Comment
Okay, if this is what you have in mind, then I think a evil cultist would fit right in. Sth along the lines of "I'm doing xxx (evil action) b/c it will contribute to the cause of Cult xxxx and benefit all of my fellow members". I guess this is sort of the opposite case of being involved in charity for selfish reasons i.e to make a name for yourself/broaden your network of connections/create a positive image etc.
btw, saw the edit and liked them. They are not substantial enough for me to revote but I do still think they improve this piece.
Although I find this sub more fully fleshes out Trianarianism compared to what I've read pre-Cataclysm, I have the following two questions:
1. I know a large part of this sub is the actual religious text but just wondering that given the set-up at the start, why is it important for the Three to stop ppl from turning away from their worship? As far as I understand it, they need to keep the balance b/w themselves and are interested in maintaining the world Atheus (i.e. make sure it doesn't get destroyed). But as the sub currently stands, it doesn't lead me to have any pre-disposition as to thinking that the Three actually cares abt getting worshipped.
2. The Deific Antangonist section, I was somehow expecting a set of opposing deities for the Three but instead it's just abt the re-discovery of Trianarianism and then it branches off into angels and devils. I also get the impression that the Lunists and the Barbarianism's Polytheism (which you haven't released yet) might be the actual 'antagonists' so maybe just change the heading to prevent such mis-leading impressions?
Meanwhile, my gut feeling tells me that I'm still leaning towards my old vote. I appreciate the effort put into this particular piece and they have all improved the sub from previous versions. For example, in this current version, I like the fact that in practice section has been expanded quite a bit. But sorry to say that I cannot say that the improvements are substantial enough for me to upvote this particular piece. Go to Comment
I like anything that proposes an alternative to the weary old Good/Evil and Order/Chaos axes.
However, this seems to have distilled the definitions of these principles down to "caring about yourself", "caring about something else", and "caring about some Kantian principles". The problem, I think is that people are inclined to combine all three of these things. I selfishly care about myself, but I am altruistic towards my family, less so towards my friends, and a set of morals (honor?) dictate how I behave towards people otherwise. (Although some would argue that I behave however I want and then assign the morals post hoc.)
I also have a hard time imagining how altruists can be evil as often as ambitious egoists. And this definition of ambition reminds me of Ayn Rand's objectivism, which I've only known to produce a terrible sense of entitlement.
I guess my objections are mostly philosophical.
These three words are already well-defined and burdened with connotation. I would rename them something that doesn't mean anything. Maybe the names of the three genderless gods? It'd add some exoticism, as well.
I also think this works better as a system for *centering* morality rather than *defining what is desirable*. Such as: the self-centered dude helps the drowning man because that's what he would want if he were drowning. The community-centered dude helps the drowning man because the village needs every citizen. The honor-centered dude helps the drowning man because "it is just the right thing to do".
The self-centered dude robs the bakery because he needs money for food. The community-centered dude robs the bakery because his children need money for shoes. The honor-centered dude robs the bakery because the baker is a coward and does not deserve it. Go to Comment
Your objections/ideas/criticisms all have valid points. Your idea of renaming the Three to something different, to flee the connotative meanings of the names is a good one, and I'll get to it.
And people do combine all three, though some are, naturally, more one than another. You give a good example about yourself: " I selfishly care about myself, but I am altruistic towards my family, less so towards my friends, and a set of morals (honor?) dictate how I behave towards people otherwise." But I ask you: are you more one category than the other? Because its okay in Trianarianism to give a lot and be Altruistic if you follow the Ambition path, and so its more of a personal choice which one best suits you than the others.
And yes, I should probably put a "in practice" heading in there. Trianarianism was stagnating in my "in work" folder, so I was getting slightly anxious unleash it upon the citadel. Go to Comment
Yes, I'll go back and put in a "in practice" heading. It never really crossed my mind to do that. I'll get on it.
And what do you mean by your statement of "I think we really should to write this up as part of a narrative, put this through the crucible of story telling, and see what comes out." Just like turn this into a story of "Bob lives in this village, and is a Trianarianist. He decided to join that Way, and do that with his life. Blah blah Bob did this blah." ? Go to Comment
Evil Altruists could simply be people who are very team-oriented villains. Say that member of the Supervillain Team that opposes the PCs in that Superhero game you play (as in, marvel and DC comics) that always supports his fellow villains in their ideas, encourages them into far more evil, devious, and PC-bone-shattering plots, and will be the one to bring the coffee to the next round table discussion. And at the same time as that villain is encouraging his teammates and helping them with their plots with funds and such, he has his own private plots- one of which involves the genocidal killing of all the Africans because they "drain too much of our country's resources in peace-keeping efforts. Much easier just to send a couple of nukes there way and be done with the mess."
Of course, this concept could be easily adapted to the fantasy setting in which Atheus lies. Change the Supervillain Team to cabal of necromancers, or a cult that partakes in human sacrifices while trying to summon the evil, tentacled demon Alshakadalika'tey.
Is that evil enough? And team-player enough? Altruists don't have to give to everybody. If they don't give a lot of stuff to other people, they'd have to be team-players.
And yes, Altruism is a difficult one to have evil people be involved in. But there are some. Go to Comment
Your comments were/are clear. My mind must have been abducted by aliens when I put that in because I didn't know whether you were saying that I should change the whole piece into tale of the then Bob and the now Mortimor progressing through his Trianarianist life, or do what I did and have Mortimor be more of a background, or just a comment about my awesome writing style and how I should use something like the former for the future and not to change Trianarianism in that manner. Yeah, it was getting kind of late when I put that it, so my mind was clearly in an alien space ship being put through various tests. Go to Comment
Update: Finaly, Trianarianism is fixed up! Because of the Cataclysm, some of the edits I had made (such as the deities' names, and the story of WhateverHisNameIs) were lost to the void. Which is why I wrote up the Liber Tribus bit. Oh, and the Deific Antagonist bit is new, too. Go to Comment
1. They need to keep people worshiping them so that the whole world keeps reincarnating again and again. Which, depending on the Trianarianist you asked, might lead to no further innovations and changes with the people themselves. The same person might feel the artistic motivation to make a piece of art, for example, and find that they just plagiarized the work they did in a previous life. Of course, that belief is held only by a part of the faith.
The other answer would be that they felt abandoned. Like a friend just walked out on your life after you made a petty mistake. Like all their efforts keeping the angel's and the devil's war away from Atheus was not being recognized. Which brings us to question 2
2. I'll admit it, the two reasons I added that section was because the Liber Tribus needed three sections, and I wanted the last section to fall in the "in practice" heading, and that the Trirex needed something to say "Believe or DIE! and have a reason for that death. Which is why I mention the other two faiths of Atheus (if you ignore the cults). "If you don't convert from Lunism the scary angels will get you! And did I mention the devils?"
Your three opposing deities idea is good. I'd incorporate it, but I don't think it would actually work. If you took the opposites, you'd get the Lazy one, the Selfish one, and the Corrupt one, and they wouldn't be able to oppose anyone very well. The Lazy one would just laze, and the Selfish one wouldn't work with the Corrupt one to take down the Three. And if it came to a fight, the Selfish one would go down quickly (one versus three never works well) and the Corrupt one'd flee.
So to summarize this, the Angels and Devils are the enemy on the Deity level, the Lunists and the Barbarian's Polytheists are the enemies on the everyday level. Go to Comment
It would be cooler if the mosquitoes effects were the same as the flower itself, as it would make for an interesting plotline:
After a particularly rainy season, the residents of the swampy town have suddenly been cursed! For no apparent reason, people of the town come down with crazed fear; sometimes a few dozen people in a single day! They either lock themselves away in fear,barricading the doors or flee into the swamp, screaming about imagined horrors Nobody seems to be safe from the curse and it is causing widespread panic!
The pcs have come to investigate, but even they are not immune it seems, especially when they go into the soggy wilderness around the town!
The solution, once they figure out the mosquitos are the problem, is one of three things: find a way to kill the mozzies, raze the entire area of the flower ( so the mosquitoes can't carry it anymore) or find a vaccination by studying the flowers themselves. Go to Comment
If a fighter has a +1 sword that only gives that plus one if he does an exhausting practice routine in the morning, he's liable to ditch the magic sword and just use an old fashioned chunk of steel. Rather than being wore out and need to rest a couple hours before he gets started just in case he needs that plus one, he could just strap on a blade and ride off without having to deal with all the issues. (From Something Agar said)
Ideas ( System ) | December 10, 2005 |