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Scrasamax's comment on 2012-02-18 01:45 PM
In fewer words: paranormal bildungsroman, which would be a logical extension of the literary genre. Romance has a similar vein of Paranormal Romance. If Bella from Twilight was In her mid 30s instead of teens it would a much different genre even if the story shared most of the same elements. Go to Comment
Murometz's comment on 2012-02-20 10:42 AM
I thought it was just me :) I also had no idea what SAP refered to, and assumed it was my ignorance to rpg acronyms. Go to Comment
axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-18 03:37 PM
I think it is fair to call this a subgenre of the coming of age story, but in sense that the anti-western is still a western. In these movies, I found that the kids in general did not come of age, or blossom. Rather at end they often chose to or were forced to return to their life before the supernatural events. Take the story Carrie for example. You have Carrie blossoming and maturing, but in the end she cannot embody that fully matured powerful person.
In other coming of age stories, like Great Expectations, or Stand By Me or even Dune or the Lord of the RIngs the young characters go through a change and can't come back from it, but instead must go on as adults. The childhood is lost In these movies the choice seems to be going back to childhood or death. In stuff like Teenwolf or the Craft, there is return to teenage normalcy at the end. I think these are stories about the ongoing state of adolscents. None of the kids in these stories are popular or well liked at the begining of the story, but deep done they are really special. Not just your mom loves you special, but super human special. What kids wouldn't want to think that. Also as teenager you get taste power, your a little smarter, a little stronger and more independent, perhaps these stories are also cautionary tales about the abuse of that power. Go to Comment
valadaar's comment on 2012-02-20 10:33 AM


I think you need to define SAP.  I can get general meaning from the body of the sub, but using an acronym right in the title that not everyone is familiar with, is not a good thing.



 



For example, I did not know what SAP stood for in the RPG domain and had to read into the article to get the 'gist' of it. It was distracting and I was doing more scanning of the article for a denition rather then actually *reading* the artical.



 



 



 



 



 


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Zailtais's comment on 2012-02-20 10:01 AM


This is a very interesting post. I've never recognized this genre before, but I can certainly see the common elements you describe in those films that I am familiar with. Even with my introductory understanding of the genre, I think that the obstacles to implementation of this genre in a game that you've listed above can be easily overcome. Where characters are concerned it is easy to imagine diminishing the impact of character advancement, removing it as much as possible from character control, and at the same time emphasizing the character's personal development through roleplay. Where the storyline is concerned, advancement can come from characters learning more about the supernatural nature of their situation. The climax of this advancement being when each characters learns enough to realize that they must give up the their personal development or face disaster. Whether RPGs are serial and how many storylines are involved is a choice made by the GM. My suggestions only apply to a game where SAP, as you've described it, is the main genre and I can certainly see how it would be difficult to blend with a traditional/stereotypical RPG.


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Murometz's comment on 2012-02-23 10:46 AM


A new Decepticon rises! I will run him by my kids today, see what they think :)



But on a serious note, i like the format, his background, and of course the cherry...braggart.


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Scrasamax's comment on 2012-02-19 12:15 AM
I have differ with you in opinion. I grew up with the Transformers and while I agree that the animation, plot, and production value were terrible, the show brimmed with potential. The factions can be endlessly rewritten and revamped, and terms like mature and intellectual have no place in the original show. It was made and marketed to boys 5-10 years old. The new Michael Bay movies are little more than mindless explodium and slow motion boob running intended to play off of a generation that grew up with the old cartoon, slathered with cgi and equally bad plots. I have no desire to do anything with the new transformers movies. Go to Comment
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Murometz's comment on 2012-02-15 11:30 AM


Wow.



 



Once you're done with the foundation, brainstorming, format and logistics, I'd like to PLAY this game! :)



 



And once youre done with this, please consider...Thundercats, He-Man, Space Ghost, etc

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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-15 11:39 AM
"Each transformer needs a size.

Size does not mean more power or more gadgets. It usually means that the bot is stronger, tougher, and more intimidating though. "
Size is included in the power rating, i understand what you mean about power not being size and i think the difference here is just word choice. As I have it here (or will have it here, every time I edit this something else is lost, its F**KING wit me ed.) Power is related to size, base damage done and base damage absorbed. Here is the listing of the size/power choices. That I can't to go into the main post.
A: Mega: Pretty self explanatory, if you turn into something that holds multiple other transformers. Omega Supreme, Metroplex, Scorponok
B: Max: These are like front lines units but for some reason in the toys and the in the narrative of the show they were just a little more robust and powerful. This includes the leaders, Galvatron, Megatron, Optimus Prime, Grim Lock
C: Front Line: These would be units such as Hound, Wheeljack, Hoist, Soundwave,
D: Secondary Unit: Smaller but still effective transformers: Bumblebee, Cosmos, Powerglide, and the Insecticons
E: Extension Units: These are transformers that don’t exist without another transformer. All the transforming cassette tapes would fall into this category and maybe Reflector.


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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-15 11:43 AM
"Each transformer should have a motivation in addition to a purpose. This will help explain why they make each decision. Optimus leads the autobots, but he is willing to die to save one transformer. Starscream wants to please or overthrow Megatron, but he usually just obeys his orders."

I have a step D to character creation, I called it the character's Quirk or Bugs/disadvantages. Every transformer has one. Maybe the character has to speak in rhyme, maybe the character has constant ruthless ambition or maybe the character has a "simple brain". Go to Comment
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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-15 11:52 AM
"Some transformers can also have multiple alternate forms. One alternate form option is the ability to combine with other transformers. These combiners, like Devastator, have a new arsenal and abilities when combined."

I tried to deal with this also is character creation. So the player rate the relative importance of the various character aspects 1-5 or A-E. If you put a rank of A in power, then get to play a mega transformer-like a transforming aircraft carrier. If you put a rank E in power, then you play a transforming side car to somebody else's motorcycle.
The 5 aspect you rank are POWER, WEAPON, SKILLS, VEHICLE FORM, AND ADVANTAGEs.
ADVANTAGEs would deal with the issues you bring up.
I have yet to assign value to the different advantages but I brainstormed some above. One of those would be noncybertron construction, no prime directives, Examples of this would be the Combaticons and the Dinobots. Another advantage would be part of connector unit. So if you wanted to play a Combaticon type unit you would have to spend a enough focus you priorities on advantages. Go to Comment
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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-15 11:54 AM
"Each transformer should have a power rating for the power of their Spark"

Yes they should! could this be like experince, could extra spark be an advantage you buy? When you have a spark of five do get to the hold matrix? This particular point needs work. Go to Comment
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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-16 04:35 PM
What do you mean dull, an SUV with ramming armor and Futuristic Space vehicle with a multitool sound awesome!! They are way cooler than say a mini-van with a glue gun.

"I am looking at you G1 one Ironhide....there was reason you got it worst of all in the movie."

What were your character's personality like? If I am going to make tables that for people to roll up G1 characters, then they have to except that Bumblebees will happen. More than that if you are going to play with tables based character generation, then you have to commit to playing a random character.
Of course you can always leave the table behind. Just say I am putting A in alternate form and playing a robot that turns into shark.

My goal here is to get simple system that 5 people could make 5 characters in under half an hour and which uses intuitive rules. So I was toying with a different alternate form table for each power rating. So if you were a power A, you would roll on a different alternate form table for each rank you put into alternate form. But that would be too many tables. But unless we choose to just ignore mass as an issue like they did in the G1 cartoons, then we can't have a Mega transformer playing turning into a chainsaw. I think if we only gave A/5 power and an E/1 power have different table.

But as hybrid and multiple forms, burrowing, that is why a put mole in there, that is why I put advantages in there. You will get advantage points to spend on stuff, and then you can take disadvantages like "simple minds" to get more advantages.

How about this? If you are rank A or B alternate form you vehicle or animal has some sort of device or weapon it. So if you transform from those forms you get to keep the vehicle weapon, like the wrecking ball?


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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-17 11:26 AM
The assumption was every transformer has an energy weapon, and can brawl "in all that". I think I say that in the write up but that needs to be more clear. But if you think we should take that out, I could see that, just give a weapon chart D-E and as you say allow players with weapon rating of C or higher to get two rolls. That could be fun, you'd get some more personalized weapons then the basic blaster for everyone. If we go with basic blaster idea, the power of that energy weapon is linked to your primary power rating. The Weapon chart is only for bonus weapons and doesn't necessarily mean offensive weapons. Then if chose alternate form RANK A or B. You also get a "primary" weapon or utility. Why don't you write up the weapon chart you think best fits.

As for the rationale why the "cost" for playing an animal. Well that is based on what I envisioning for the alternative form in game mechanics. In the robot form you have based power rating, this effects your speed, your resistance to damage and all types of attacks and your ability to dish out damage. Then in your alternate form your base rating is increased. For example in the system I am going to post, Grimlock in robot form would roll 4d10 for everything (except Skills). The strength of his actions would be based on the final number rolled, then in T-rex form he would either roll 6d10 is one thing I am considering but I inclinded to having it be 4d10+16 for Level 4 Transformer in alternate form. It is my belief that the animal forms are less specialized then the vehicle forms and are more versitile. An Ape may not have as big a gun as tank, but can it carry out a wider range of actions and it will be just as strong.


What we really need to work are the skills. How important do we want them to be? How specific do we want them to be? How much variation in skill levels do we want to have?
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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-22 07:20 AM
I didn't mind the first M. Bay transformers movie with its "A Boy and his robot" plot. The two stories of the militaries exploration of the robots and the boys exploration. But you are right though they did not have the depth of the original G1 story line, which is saying a lot. Why did the writers have the Transformers come here looking for an artifact? I could get that they are looking for megatron, I could swalllow that Megatron is in some X-file/National Treasure like military facility, I could accept the kid and bumblebee form an ET-ELIOT bond, and that the "The Jesus" (his character was so over the top he might as well have been wearing that purple jump suit under clothes) was working for a secret government agency. could be made to accept that the boy might have some clue or item that would help the transformers. But it was amazing that after all that stuff they put in the film that there was no depth to the film at all. All of that and what story was left for us fanboys to expand on?
There were some very odd choices made in that movie, for example why the scene with Jon Voight and John Turturo trapped in the room with the little transformer? Did we need to redeem their characters? Go to Comment
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axlerowes's comment on 2012-02-23 07:09 AM
All that movement and the movies still didn't go anywhere. Go to Comment
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Magus of the Citadel's comment on 2012-02-22 12:59 PM
All flash and CG dazzle, who needs plot or dialog when you have Optimus Prime rendered with 10,000 moving pieces (nicked from the special features, not an exaggeration)

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Silveressa's comment on 2012-02-17 04:32 AM


Honestly I'm not a big fan of the old cartoon Transformers, mostly becuse the concept of shape shifting robts that mimic everyday vehicles never really stuck me as "fun" or engaging/realistic on a "mature intellectual level." (The movies were good however, but nothing like the old school cartoon.)



With that said, the way you lay this concept out makes it sound really fun, and makes me want to roll up a bot and give it a go, not something I was expecting when I began to read the sub!. 8)



I guess perhaps its the way the Artifical intelligence programming is laid out in the rules that make it sound more appealing, and gives some structure to the concept making ti less of a "make stuff up" feeling and grounds them a bit more firmly in pusedo science.



Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing more of this, great work so far!


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OmegaDraco's comment on 2012-02-15 08:57 AM


 




Each transformer needs a size. 



Size does not mean more power or more gadgets. It usually means that the bot is stronger, tougher, and more intimidating though. 



Each transformer should have a motivation in addition to a purpose. This will help explain why they make each decision. Optimus leads the autobots, but he is willing to die to save one transformer. Starscream wants to please or overthrow Megatron, but he usually just obeys his orders.



Each transformer should have a power rating for the power of their Spark. The Spark rating is the will power of the transformer to overcome any obstacle. Transformers with the strongest sparks often have "aberrant" powers. The more common aberrant sparks allow communication between sparks as if by telepathy. The duocons are able to split their "mitotic sparks" between multiple bodies. More powerful aberrations allow feats of power that seem almost magical in nature: Starscream has an indestructible spark, Rampage's spark was also indestructible and it granted him rapid repair powers, Megatron's spark somehow mutated with the whole Noble/Savage thing and later gained the abilities to float around, speak disembodied, and eventually "consume" other sparks.



Some transformers can also have multiple alternate forms. One alternate form option is the ability to combine with other transformers. These combiners, like Devastator, have a new arsenal and abilities when combined.



I would also say that players could choose options other than Autobot or Decepticon. Dinobots, Insecticons, Vehicons, Mini-cons, Maximals, and Predicons are all valid options. Each would have a different type of purpose and existence. A particularly evil character might be allowed to play a Blendtron, Herald of Unicron, but I would be cautious about overdoing it at that point.



I love the post though. It makes me happy. 5/5




 


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OmegaDraco's comment on 2012-02-16 03:41 PM


I like the character creation that you did, however, anything that I got from the random charts was both dull and strange (I got an autobot SUV with raming armor or a Decepticon futuristic space vehicle with a multi-tool). It seems like the system could benefit from a few more tables for each of the 5 features.



For example, the Weapon feature should instead be the Armament feature. No matter what rank you select, you get some level of tool (most tools like a hammer or wrecking ball could double as a weapon, but it's not as effective).With a rank of D or better, you get to roll on the random weapon table. With a rank or B or better, you also get to roll on the defensive equipment table (including armor and other defensive measures). So with rank B, you would roll three times for armament: once for column B on the Tools table, once for column B on the weapon table, and once for column B on the defensive equipment table.



The Vehicle feature could instead be the Protoform feature. This is a measure of your size (A being Mega, E being tiny). Each size category has random transformations suitable to that size with 2 entries: one for autobots and one for decepticons (and maybe a third for beast form). With a rank of D or better, you get to roll on another table for additional transforming features like hybrid, multiple forms, additional environment capabilities (underwater, space, etc.), silent transformation, etc.. With a rank of B or better, you get to roll on another table for awesome transforming features like extra weapons, drones, burrowing, flight (or space flight), etc.



Skills, Power, and Advantages all could have additional tables and benefits. While this does mean a lot more work coming up with features, it would impart much more meaning to assigning the power levels. 

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