I want to go there and buy stuff, but my money would be useless to them. Go to Comment

5.0/5

Great read. Top marks from me for this one. Go to Comment

Just so complete a sub. Also, I find the whole Ouzquin Dremorix setting fascinating. Go to Comment

Thanks val. It isnt evil, per se. Like Axtrami it is defined by how the ouzquin dremorix believe in it. As they say; good and evil are man-made ideals :)

while it represents all the 'evil' ideas n the world, Vauraki itself is true neutrality - it is only doing what it was born to do. Go to Comment

Those 'upstart' Quinnish folk are all deluded into believing that they are 'special', or that they have made the right precautions, or that they are powerful enough to overcome Vauraki, or that they can convince Vauraki to conform to them. They are all wrong. Their own hightened sense of self-worth is their own undoing. Vauraki is unbiased when it comes to it's slaughter of such people.

Although it's not something that Axtrami tries to hide, the average Ouzquin Dremorix does not know or realize that Axtrami's (and Vauraki's) power is based on their belief. They just believe him to be a god, always there regardless. Some OD are more enlightened to the fact though.

It is possible that one of these enlightened people try to summon Vauraki with this thought in mind, but the overall belief and fear of the Ouzquin Dremorix society as a whole will far override one person's attempt at believing they can control him.

Bareka, The OD home city will come soon! Go to Comment

I like this submission but can't find the vote button on IE or Firefox. Go to Comment

At last I get to vote. Go to Comment

Some heady myth-making here. Good stuff! Evocative imagery of a crimson-stained obsidian wolf! Some nice prose.

I'm curious regarding the paragraph that begins..."Rather than possessing intelligence and sentience, Vauraki is elemental in nature. It is a primal, bestial force...."

The Ozquin Dremorix gave birth to the Vauraki based on faith-and-belief "projection". If enough believe strongly...it comes to be. So far so good. When the occasional "upstart" Ouzquin Dremorix attempts to summon/control Vauraki, do they understand that it is a "primal, uncaring, elemental entity", or do they have some idea that they themselves created it, and thus *can* potentially worship/control it?

If that question doesn't make sense, fair enough, we'll move on :p

I'll close with...yet another great addition to the world of Ouzquin Dremorix! Go to Comment

I really like this sub, Shadoweagle. I share the same thoughts for the origins of divine figures from people's beliefs in game worlds.

The only downside is the dumbing down and removing any real personalty from Vauraki as this limits its use somewhat. Something unintelligent cannot in my opinion, be truly evil. Go to Comment

This is one heck of a critique axle. It seems that you somehow latch onto something obtuse and cerebrally pick it to death even if it doesn't have much relevance to the actual submission. A simple, "this would fit a plot better" would have been plenty and then giving a little love to a wonderful piece of work.

I think the rule that would help you is for every critique, you should say two things nice about submissions. Go to Comment

Awesome. This is almost exactly how I ended up joining a cult. Small steps, better rewards, before I knew it I released a greater demon. Small world!

This is even better since it can so seamlessly be added to any evil adventure. No time limits and the tasks they are given could be accordianed as needed to fit a campaign. Fantastic.

It is really a perfect adventure template to help weave almost anything into another story. Get two or three of these twisting in and out of each other and you have an awesomely cohesive, world-spanning adventure with plenty of layers and side-quests available. I absolutely love the setup!

And, I agree, it probably hits the plot category better. Go to Comment

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The theology of the cult really doesn't have a whole lot of relevance to me in the process of following the plot. The answering of any of your posed questions would require an entirely new submission to flesh out for little or no extra value to this idea.

This site is a place for the sharing and celebration of each other's ideas. What threw me off was your expectation for a graduate level discourse on theology and divination and critique on the proper development of a belief system...all for a fun roleplaying idea.

I want a cool idea that is fun to run and this one fits the bill fabulously. I just can't comprehend that your expectations are so lofty that you actually expect these things to be answered. Go to Comment

Congrats to SE and this submission being the first place submission in the quest Religions and Cults!! Go to Comment

Update: Changed to plot as per comment suggestions! Go to Comment

As for Axle's impressive critique, all I can say is that I really don't look quite that deep into the things I write :p

You seem to want me to write you out an entire book - your expectations of me are far too high; I don't have that kind of attention span.
________________

Sometimes there will be contradictions and errors, and there will always be questions left unanswered. All I try to achieve by the end of a post is to have a neat idea, which is still hopefully open-ended enough for it to be adapted for whatever purpose the reader wants.

There's a balance that I think is good to have in subs - which I probably sometimes don't manage to achieve - wherein something is specific enough to have all the details and info that you might need, yet still vague enough that it can be manipulated and worked into any number of scenarios.

Additionally, to address all the possible issues; such as in-depth descriptions of what the recruiter may say or use to entice the people into joining, or to expand the entire pantheon of gods and give backgrounds and descriptions of them, would make this sub extremely long and also take up a hell of a lot of my time. If I was on a payroll I might consider this, but since i'm not, you have what is presented to you.

What is written here is not the be-all-and-end-all of this idea. For example; if you wanted the characters to have an opportunity to have the debate on theology, add it to your game! As you mention; characters have plenty of depth and might not be motivated by greed etc, so I can't anticipate what stance your gamers will take on the subject, or how you would approach it; it is something which you have to decide and make up for yourself, based on how you know your players and their characters.


We have damned smart people roaming this website - Axle, you're obviously a prime example of one - If you put the same energy into filling in the blanks i've left to suit a game of your own as you did writing and re-writing your impressive critique, then the sub would be rich, complete and full of all the added detail you require, as well as being suited to whatever game and characters you need.

I don't think people need everything spelled out for them anyways; where's the fun if there's no room for someone to make it their own?
Go to Comment

Cultists are more then just bags of hit points. Go to Comment

This is a well thought-out, well planned scenario. I like that you've made it adaptable to fit around other adventures and events, or to be use solely. The gods presented are both familiar and interesting.
The bonuses applied would have to be changed based on the game you're using, but giving them to us as guidelines helps.

Overall, I like it quite a lot. Go to Comment

Critiques:

I believe the submission is miss filed, I think this a plot not a system. While it contains the fundamental description of a system it is primarily a plot or mini-campaign.  This taxonomic view does not effect my opinion of the submission nor, I believe, the submission's  relevance to the quest.  I think this is a well organized and well written story presented as a bare bones DnD style module.  

I believe in this plot their are several layers of conflict.  The direct conflict between the NPCs and the PCs is one layer of conflict.  The conflict between the cult and society in general is another layer. And the conflict between the ideology of the cult and ideology of the established church is yet another layer. I believe this final layer is under developed.  I accept that there is good argument that most theological dispute are held in proxy for other more deeply rooted economic or social disputes. I could also accept that religious disputes are essentially an us versus them dispute and theological trappings are unimportant and interchangeable.  Thus as the plot goes these specifics are not important to its progression. However, I assume that this post was written in part with the goal of exploring the theology of the cult.  I think the treatment of the cult and its values in the current write up is shallow and this diminishes the evil cult to a gimmick; essentially the campaign comes to down to "wouldn't it be fun or novel to play an evil party."   I see the underdevelopment of cult in two sections of this write up: first the amount of literal and explicit information in this write regarding the cult and the conflict between the gods  is sparse and underdeveloped. Secondly, the amount of time and energy dedicated to this specific  conflict of ideas and world views in the events and actions outlined in plot is negligible. 

With regard to the lack of literal and explicit information given to the cult in this write up this begins in section one with the recruitment of the anti-Heros in the sample seen. The "recruiting officer" states that the character have checked the right boxes with their violent and ruthless tactics but does not express the moral or ethical underpinnings of her beliefs .  Just because the characters are "evil" does it mean they are shallow?  Then again in the write up of the god, SE states that there is conflict between the gods of civilization and the gods of chaos, and even a debate, but does not outline that debate. However some are things are described very precisely, we have a few specifics with regard to proper names and event, but only a vague outline of the theological underpinnings that lead to those events. 

However, this terse write up would not be as large a problem if the characters were given an opportunity themselves to have this debate, to develop the theology and explore the values of their chaotic animalistic side versus the values of the structured and dignified side of society. The characters are at one pointed ask to recruit new people to their cult, fairly late in the progression of the story,  however as the story is written the major points made by the character's relationship to the cult is improved stats, wealth and magical weapons.  There should be a point in the plot in which the players have to defend their beliefs with more than a sword and a spell.  I believe that developing the theology of the cult and forcing the players express some understanding of this theology and defend will increase the player involvement in the game, the level of immersion and ultimately the game's significance and enjoyment.  

Go to Comment

Nope. Dossta, I re read my comment and I am sorry. My original comment was unfocused and full of asides and ideas for the plot. It was also really badly written and I am dumber for having reread it. I tried to re write the comment, so it focuses only on what I thought should be changed. Go to Comment

Et tu Strolen,
first my comment on 4-9-13 was regarding my own comment on this post made on 4-7-13, so I was calling my own writing horrible. It (my comment) was unfocused and rambling


I decided to try and make one point, so edited the comment yesterday. And the suggestion that this should go into the plot was a minor point that has little relevance to what I was trying to say. I am talking about the theology of the cult. But you are right the theology or values of the cult don't have a lot relevance to the actual submission? There in was my point. Go to Comment