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Theory of Elements
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Scrasamax's comment on 2006-02-06 10:41 AM
An interesting idea and superb presentation. I look forward to what this thread generates! Go to Comment
Theory of Elements
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Cheka Man's comment on 2006-02-06 12:42 PM
A very good well-written idea. Go to Comment
Theory of Elements
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Priv8eye's comment on 2006-02-07 03:03 AM
Really interesting stuff and well presented. Got me thinking a lot, and although I wouldn't use it in a game a tpresent I can see how it could be adapted to use in a more 'modern' game (18th cent as you say) quite well.

It almost makes me want to do one just to work with it. Go to Comment
Theory of Elements
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Pariah's comment on 2006-02-07 07:50 PM
Yeah!!! You're my hero. I had been trying to get something like this on my own, but you did it so much better. Go to Comment
Theory of Elements
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
valadaar's comment on 2006-11-30 11:43 AM
I think this is an excellent submission - and I plan to add to it - perhaps a debate over the 5th element (Nothing to do with that movie though !) Go to Comment
Theory of Elements
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valadaar's comment on 2007-01-17 06:43 PM
With all due respect to my esteemed colleagues, R.A. Blenkinsop, G. Wainwright and L.L.K. Janovsky, I cannot fully agree with their assertions on the topic of the elements, specially their consideration of Spirit, or the 5th Element.

In our studies, we have determined that Spirit indeed is a separate element and moreover, it is only through it's influence that the secondary and tertiary elements can exist at all. This replaces their current 4-tiered system with the three, which harmonizes well with the Trinity.

Before Creation, the universe consisted only of four elements, complete in their purity. Once the Universe came to Divine Attention, it was only then that the elements could combine. The pure elements left little avenue for creation of appropriate mortal coils, though beings were created, which we now know as the Elementals. These early elementals still exist today, but bereft of the element of Spirit, they are inferior beings. To provide proper containers for the Spirit, the elements were allowed to mix through the powers of the Spirit.

Upon Creation, the raw elements were touched by Divine attention and became infused with spirit. This spirit enables the elements to mix, bringing forth the existence of the other two tiers of the elements. Since Spirit is necessary to form any of the bonds, all of them include an equal proportion of spirit.

We do not contest the theory of the tiers of elements, only the view of Spirit being a combination of the four elements.

Now, the addition of the element of Spirit brings rise to additional four second tier elements. We refer to these as Divine Elements. No such material has yet been isolated, but once the Grand Elemental Circle at Cambridge is completed in the next five years, we should be better able to delve into this study, and produce samples of the Divine Elements.

At this point, venturing into the properties of the Divine Elements is a matter of speculation and is the subject of our upcoming paper.


Editor's note: R.H. Gainsworth's experimental results have yet to be confirmed by any officially sanctioned facility, and his opinions do not reflect that of this journal.
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Ruins of Linnarson II
Dungeons  (Any)   (Style)
MoonHunter's comment on 2005-12-16 07:43 AM
This is so those who wish to use it as a dungeon or site crawl would do so over here, while those who want to expand the setting will use the original one.

Also this allows the initial location to be stay as a location, yet still be found in the dungeon system. Note all the links to and from the other posts.

There will be a number of similar stubby posts in version 2.0 to make sure everything is properly searchable. Go to Comment
Ruins of Linnarson II
Dungeons  (Any)   (Style)
Mourngrymn's comment on 2006-01-12 01:17 PM
I would recommend to read the linked submissions for more background but this is a common ruins submission with a twist. Its different enough that I like it but it is still a ruined city/ dungeon area with unknown danger and creatures beyond knowledge. Go to Comment
Ruins of Linnarson II
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valadaar's comment on 2008-04-22 11:11 AM
I like your stuff, but this feels incomplete Iain! Go to Comment
Ruins of Linnarson II
Dungeons  (Any)   (Style)
PoisonAlchemist's comment on 2011-07-22 12:29 PM


Simple. Functional. Flexible. Nothing terribly fancy but a good reason for wonky dungeon ecology. I don't feel like this really needs anything more. 


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Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Strolen's comment on 2005-12-15 10:50 AM
I posted an idea awhile ago that said something like the sharpness of the blade increases with the skill of the wielder. Was actually going to post an item on it eventually (still will) but basically the item starts out somewhat dull, given to the person at the beginning of their training. I guess you could say it is enchanted. Haven't worked out the details too much, but as the wielder becomes more skilled the sword's sharpness and deadliness grows with it. By the time they are a master swordsman the sword has achieved a few +'s in perhaps speed and damage, but nothing over the top. But the sword is and has been carried by the swordsman since his first training.

I mention it because it sort of goes along the lines you are thinking. I think the entire premise of yours is a great one. Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Strolen's comment on 2005-12-15 10:57 AM
Once you have all the rules in place, are they generally known? Is it common knowledge how to gain access to the power or does each person who finds a Heroic Weapon have to stumble through the learning process on how to master this unique weapon?

-Could it be that each weapon holds echoes or clues of past deeds that will lead the new holder to harness the true power. All these things about if the player is worthy is decided by the sword based on character's actions and perhaps even his need or desperation. What good is a heroic sword if it doesn't become heroic in a specific time of justified great need. It might be that great deed that finally releases the final power or clues to its true use.

-If the power control thing is well known then perhaps Bards and Historians play a much more important part of the world. If power is based on legend then the world would probably be super rich in the history and legend of those that came before. The heroic weapon would be a very rare thing, but stories of those that came before would probably be a super important part of the cultures.

Do offspring of the heroes have a better chance of harnessing the power and maybe even increasing it? Insert a list of "Son of..." for many generations and does the relative of numerous ages of legendary acts have an innate ability of some sort? These weapons would most likely be handed down through generations and probably the first born son being the most wanted to carry the legacy.

Could go the other way too, relatives cannot harness the power at all. Nontraditional type approach. Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Strolen's comment on 2005-12-15 10:58 AM
Belief is one thing, but I like the idea for this one that the weapon would actually have to physically go through the events to obtain their power.

If the weapon gains power from the belief that it was associated with a legend then it really doesn't matter if the weapon *is* that one from legend as long as those believe it is. Is that what you are saying? That belief gives it power?

I think, belief or not, if a weapon has grown with somebody, been through many great battles, has been imbued with heroic powers through its experience, then the weapon should hold the powers with or without a new owner believing in them.

I don't like the idea of belief being the requirement for the powers. Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
manfred's comment on 2005-12-15 10:51 AM
*sigh* Man, I really wished to create an article featuring the same thing! Pity you did it even better than me.


One optional rule I considered to implement was this:
(Bearing in mind my system is all about skills, and the Personalised Magical Item is a kind of skill too.)

Whatever the item's skill is, anyone other than the master and creator of the item itself has only half the skill at his disposal.

Meaning, (talking D&D for a moment), a common +1 sword must have had a skilled owner/creator, likely a veteran mercenary/adventurer. A +5 sword would have to come from a truly legendary hero.

Plus one not so optional rule:
You cannot make such an item grow more. You did not start it, you can't continue.

The rule can be bypassed (maybe if it was in your family from your father's father's father times), but the point of both is not to rely on existing items too much, but rather create your own legend (so to speak). Alternatively, it could be limited in other ways (requirement on high skills, heroic qualities, etc ). I just want to prevent that 5 mediocre fighters, each owning a sword for some time, produce an excellent weapon. Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
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manfred's comment on 2005-12-15 10:52 AM
Speaking of weapons and heroes all the time, this mechanism, does not have to be used only for them. Even some "ordinary" people might use, even without knowing it...

Note one excellent example I have found.
http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=380

It surely is another weapon, but not created in combat, nor was it ever used by a hero.

All that is of course an excellent GM tool... Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
manfred's comment on 2005-12-15 10:56 AM
Quote from: "Iain"
Unfortunately, these ideas are mutually exclusive with Shadoweagle's suggestion that this is what TRUE magic is, with enchantments and things just an imitation...


It is, in the end, a question of definition: Is there truly something special about this kind of magical items, past their history? If there is something special (maybe even some spiritual residuum from its master), we may as well call it magic. If not, then those are really ordinary, common items.

---

Let's examine a theoretical example: I am thinking of a simple peasant-boy, that finds an old crypt, and a sword inside. Being naive, but head full of stories of a legendary hero, he convinces himself that this is THE sword of ________ the Mighty. He may try to use it for heroic deeds. What will happen?

A purely psycological boost can in theory make him a hero! Believing the sword is his ultimate aid to great deeds, he might achieve them, and grow into a hero himself. Perhaps it even passes to someone else later.

---

As for magic, such an item may not serve everyone and to every purpose; it would probably reflect something of its creator's personality. So you have to be brave and noble to make it work, or it is so great only against a certain enemy the creator opposed at most. This does not hinder any plot hooks (like the misguided good guy, that commit very evil deeds with a noble weapon, or a "curse", making a weapon always hit cruelly some group of people, even if trying to fight subdual). And right, it might confer penalties, if you use a weapon against its "purpose".

That notorious common +1 sword can be used by anyone, for any purpose, by the way.

Would a weapon change with its new wearer? Perhaps, as the hero becomes a leader, and slowly turns into a dictator, will it adapt? Or will it fail to serve him, and even turn against?

---

I must admit the purely psychological approach sounds a bit nicer for me.


But, if we go for game mechanics, and game issues, I would say magic is better. Why?

- I can well imagine many players to come up with new characters, that "have found a sword they believe to belong to Crunch the Muscular, in effect giving a bonus of +X against...". That can be easily prevented, but still.

- How to turn down someone, that claims "But my character _really_ believes in that effect."? It is easier to check the PCs actual deeds, and decide whether they correspond to a swords purpose (created by the wicked GM in the first place ). If the cool weapon does not perform that greatly, maybe the character is not worthy, or is doing something wrong? Talk of supporting character development.

- Magic is never fully predictable, or the item may be so. It may just not work to day for some strange magical reasons, ("Mana Storm? What's that?"), or may be a quirk, owner's hobby, weakness, or principle or what. Maybe the hero killed hundreds of Orcs, but never harmed a child or a female of this race. You better discover this _before_ facing the Orcish War Priestesses.


In the end, everything is of course a DM call. But I think that magic offers more options for the Game Master. What do you think? Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
manfred's comment on 2005-12-15 10:59 AM
Another approach, thinking whether the item is even more effective in the hands of a hero.


What if the sword (OK, any item will do, but that's the tradition) becomes in effect a hero's "bodypart"? It is HIS, you see, he used it for ages and relied on it for his life, cared for and even got emotionally attached. Add some magic coming from the process.

To the hero (that has already amazing skills), the weapon is much easier to wield, he does not tire when using it, and is very hard to disarm - as if it was his bodypart. It could also become much harder/resistant to damage. And conversely, if it is damaged, it could have a negative influence on his health... getting weaker or even sick. A small general bonus is optional. Further, the hero may have a 'feeling' for his item, where it is, how it is treated, etc. But without the item, his abilities that are bound to the item could actually weaken!

To some amateur that picks it up later, a part of the hero's skills (that were bound to this item) can become accessible... more if he becomes like the hero in some regard. So knowing much about the item's master is indeed important. Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
MoonHunter's comment on 2005-12-15 10:54 AM
Legend is a magic of sorts

Have you ever had a chance to use a "masters" item? This will be sports equipment for most of us, but there are exceptions.

I used a bat used by Willy Mays once. I will swear it was better than any old normal bat. It even improved my feeble batting game. I used a foil that a fencing grandmaster had used for years. It was like it was magic. I was unstoppable. (I also now a firm believers in Italian blades.)


The sense (and weight) of history said item alters your perception, psychologically speaking. That change in perception is responsible for a boost in confidence and a focus of technique.

Because you are using this piece of history, you are now feel part of history. That changes your mental focus some. It may be what is responsible for allowing you to play beyond yourself. You are no longer focusing on the act, you are now focusing on the event (Forest/ Trees sort of thing).

If you feel worthy of using said item, it is a great boost to confidence. That can make or break an athlete or fighter. If you believe you should win more, you will overcome all opponent of the same level of technical expertise, and may even overcome superior opponents. Confidence is more than an ingredient to a miraculous Disney Movie Victory. It is the key to victory every day.

The feeling of reverence you have for said item makes you want to play better, to be worthy of using said item. You do better than when you use a normal item. That increased focus improves your technical skills and your belief that you can use them.

Is it magical or is it psychological? Is there really any difference? The effect is there. So bring on the legendary weapons!

(and grant them pluses based on their power over the character, rather than their reputation). Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
MoonHunter's comment on 2005-12-15 10:57 AM
In all things magikal (and to paraphrase Crowley before he went nuts...all acts of will into action are magical) belief is the key. Belief in yourself and your abilities can push a persons skill in sports, academics, or business, to beyond the stated compentency. Belief of others in you can inspire you to greatness, be you a person with a spouse or a sports team.

The key to magic is belief. If people believe that an item has magical properties, that it is special in some way, then it is more likely that it really is magical/ special in some way. Of course if one skilled wonder worker believes with all his might, it might be more effect than a thousand people who believe only a little. However, combining the two effects together, generates great effects.

Thus weapons/ items associated with a legend or tale will develop magic. The energy of will generated by all that belief can be channeled into the object. All it takes is a little belief in that power for an individual (who feels worthy) to tap into it. Go to Comment
Heroic but non-magical items
Systems  (Mystical)   (General)
Siren no Orakio's comment on 2005-12-15 10:57 AM
I had read the opening post, Iain, however, there'd been a bit more floating around in my head.

One of the better implementations I've played with of the 'legend creates power' concept is that presented by the Earthdawn system. Abstracting away from numbers, character growth and magic item use works roughly like this:
As you adventure, you gain a reputation(Legend). You gain power to fit the Legend. An item that you use, and importantly, name, is a part of your legend. To use someone else's item, you must first: 1: Learn the legends around it. 2: Make the item a part of /your/ legend. (In game effects, you have to spend the equivalent of exp.) Items also have levels of effect - your ability to use the item is based on how much it's been incorporated into your legend. If barely, it will only grant minor powers. If greatly, then major powers.

As a quick example of how this works: My character, an Archer, had a bow. This character also had a GM granted quirk of being adept with fire. My bow was simply 'my bow', but in the act of carving the bow with runes, we made it unique from any other bow, in essence giving it a name. Now, my character has settled down, and started playing Adam to a race of people with power over fire. In five hundred yaears, someone finds my character's bow. It will, eventually, grant him great accuracy and let him ignite arrows with a bonus. However, first he must learn my character's True Name, and the name of my adventuring troupe. (Ayn la Mira, Bleeding Roses) To access the next level of the bows power, he must find out how I joined the Bleeding Roses. The next, he must find out how I cured my Horror Marking. For the final level of the bow's power, he must find out the name of the Horror that Marked me, where the 'final showdown' was, and who actually struck the finishing blow.

Now, obviously, this is system dependant, but it provides a relatively system balanced method of bringing legend and deed to the forefront over ritual magic and 'sword +1'. Go to Comment
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