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The Haven of Voices
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EchoMirage's comment on 2009-04-06 02:18 AM
Thanks for the comments and the generous vote of (1) - it would not be NCN if he did not make a crude sexual comment :P Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
EchoMirage's comment on 2009-04-06 03:15 AM
So, updated with a little fresh content, plot hooks; restructured a little. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
EchoMirage's comment on 2009-04-07 02:16 AM
If one wants to understand, one does. I do not write dry clinical prose, for I have enough of that at work.

Also, is it wrong to state that something is clear to you when someone claims it is unintellegible? We are not the same, nor are we equal in our capacity for understanding and comprehension.

So. To whom it may concern: take your overbearing aloofness elsewhere, and stop trolling. Thanks in advance, I will be much obliged. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
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Mourngrymn's comment on 2011-04-22 06:25 PM


It is a tad bit of a shame that this has been voted so low. On seeing the vote and the comments that pulled it down I almost didn't read it.



While sci-fi isn't a strong point for me, and there are issues with the sub which I will not go into I pulled from this what Black Jack questioned. I feel as if the Kiranti could in fact be using this station as the ulterior motive to supply the war effort with ships and false hope of alliances. There is no more profession profitable that war profiteering.



This line is what made me think this way, "offering spare capacities of their vast shipyards for the construction of warships for their friends; during all of this, they stay loyal, cute, harmless, polite."



And kudos to the Douglas Adams reference... love it. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
axlerowes's comment on 2009-04-05 11:23 PM
I think there is a lot of good stuff in here, but it is a little jumbled.

So maybe this is several posts, one about the wormhole, one about the Kiranti and so on. I do like the idea of linking a bunch of the sci-fi races posted on line together.

NCN please don't drag me into your posts. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
axlerowes's comment on 2009-04-06 12:37 PM
Echo wrote "In the vast expanse of space, no one can hear you scream; it is a place dangerous, the final proving ground, where on a grand stage the future of races is decided, often with coherent light and nuclear fire.

While those lacking sufficient might and unity to withstand an external threat often vanish from the pages of history, for some, violence is not the be-all end-all solution at hand, but a final recourse when reason has failed."

I think what you want to say here is that space is so vast (see Douglas Adams) that once warfare reached an intrastellar scale it was easy for whole races to be wiped out. That a single race can not stand alone against a whole galaxy of potential threats. I know you are also trying set a mood but the message is not coming through clearly.

Try something (I am trying to keep with your semi-biblical tone here): *On their home world the Kiranti had long ago put way the childish tools of war in favor of resolving disputes through comprimise and dicussion. As a result the Kiranti could focus the lives of their people and the resources of their planet into art and science. Once the Kiranti entered the galactic stage of intrestellar relations they first thought that Kiranti way was the exception and that most races had focused their energies on new fantastic forms of war. What they soon learned was the Kiranti way of peace was not the exception, but rather it was the survival of peaceful peoples that was the unusual.*


From there you can go into their early wars and their formation of the alliance and then Haven Station.

Again I think things you want to communicate are:

Space is violent and you can't avoid the violence

The Kiranti are not immune to the threats of space and they know it

The Kiranti prefer diplomatic or non-violent solutions to things, though they aren't opposed to violence. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
axlerowes's comment on 2009-04-06 12:40 PM
This much better though I completely missed what the Daumar were in your first post. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
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axlerowes's comment on 2009-04-06 01:13 PM
I disagree I believe there is empirical nature to prose. Whether you prefer the sentence structure of D.H. Lawerence over Charles Bukowski is a matter of taste, but if we were to break down their work we would find similar levels of communication to the reader.


Though I may very well have lost the tone, and disregarding my rewrite lets take this piece apart.

"In the vastness of space no one can hear you scream"

What is being communicated here, and what does this phrasing seek to set as a tone? Does the Haven of Voices refute the above mantra by allowing a place where voices can be heard? These are things being hinted at but not expanded on, and thus lost. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
axlerowes's comment on 2009-04-07 02:08 PM
A lone figure strolls out on to a grey field beneath a greyer sky, he vaguely resembles a once great rock icon who is now reduced to a kitsch mascot of hubris and the James Dean principal. The ground before the figure is barren and pock marked. He makes his way between piles of still smoldering conjunctions and broken down adjectives. The air is heavy with the smell of innuendo and in the distance he can hear the sounds of various insults, their motors still idling. He picks up a half empty case of punctuation marks and rifles through it. "Only semi-colons" he says with disgust, but before he can place the case back on the broken earth he sees something. There was something beneath all these broken and misused sentences. Bending down the figure brushes aside some dirt, and finds the remains of some ones good intentions. Examining his find the figure realizes that those intentions had attempted to ride onto this field upon untamed enthusiasm. The evidence is clear though, they-both the intentions and enthusiasm- met their end here. If only there was a place where voices could heard; a Haven for communication and the resolution of opposing ideas. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
valadaar's comment on 2009-04-05 06:48 PM
This is a very interesting location, with NCN's reference to Bab5 taken into account. Anything associated with that earns points for me.

I think this is an excellent idea - but I also think it needs a bit more focus or conflict. Are there rifts within the Kiranti? Are there enemies actively seeking it out?

Plot ideas would go a long way to suggesting how this place would be used. The restrictions mentioned would prevent PC involvement unless they were highly placed. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
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valadaar's comment on 2009-04-06 12:59 PM
I'm afraid you completely lost the tone here with your rewrite Axle. And to be clear - the best anyone can say is it is unclear to them. I understood the intent of the first paragraph. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
Locations  (Establishment)   (Space)
valadaar's comment on 2009-04-08 08:55 PM
My point only was this.

You can provide your opinion - There is nothing wrong with saying "I think this sucks."

There is a problem, in my opinion, if you say "This sucks."

The difference is one is an opinion, the other is an opinion phrased as unsupported statement of fact.

Thats all. Besides, it is a fair debate - Axle though it hard to understand, I didn't. Nuff said. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
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Nocontrivedname's comment on 2009-04-05 04:20 PM
Hey Echo,

I read this last week and didn't comment on it. But since you really seem to want a comment on it I will oblige you. I think there are good things here, but they are too mixed up to be much use, and it wasn't a particularly interesting read. You spend too much time on the Golden Path stuff. I understand it is important plot device to explain why this version of Babylon 5 is safe, but it is over expanded upon. (Also Goldenpath?, sounds too much like a fetish movie) The descripition of the station is also really lacking. You list a few facts about the station but don't give us more than independent ideas about things such as the robots and the race specific areas. I was left wanting for a sense of life on the station. Perhaps a day-in-the-life on Haven type thing thread through the post would help me get a handle on the station as a place PCs can interact with and not just as a political or military mark on a map. Two subs (written by best buds) I have read use a nice and condensed method for portraying this

http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=1920

Moonhunter's Norhold sub is slim and not overly developed but it gives some basic information about the city that would enhance any readers or PCs sense of "being there". He describes the corridors, the doors and where people eat and hang out. You're second to last paragraph gets at this, but fails to paint a real picture of a scene. Again it just gives facts. Moonhunter's Norhold allows me to see the door, to move 90 paces down the low hall and see the N in the floor of the Central hall.

A good post that takes another tact is

http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=5700

Here axlerowes describes an island city. I have no idea what a single building on the island looks like (except maybe a windmill), but his entire description is about Character interaction with the setting. Where to eat, where to sleep, where to find a whore etc. Where you take third person view of the station, axlerowes takes an almost second person perspective. Nothing you wrote draws me into the locale within your submission.

So again what is the post about? Is it about the station? Is it about the political and geographical forces that facilitated the construction and current political role of this station? Is it about why one would go to this station? All those fold into one another yes, but one of those should be the central theme of essay or piece. Right now I have to give this one the thumbs down. I may change my vote later.

Later,
NCN Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
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Nocontrivedname's comment on 2009-04-06 09:07 PM
Hey Valad,

I have been waiting all day to reply to this one, but I don't log on at work.

"the best anyone can say is it is unclear to them."

I shared this with my co-workers and they all thought it was hilarious. That was a direct quote from E.B. White's "Elements of Style" isn't it?
But I digress. You didn't really mean that, what you meant is that AR is a smug bastard for suggesting such a rewrite. Additionally, you are saying by understanding the 1st paragraph you are better then AR. Well AR did sound like a smug bastard and his comments were/are useless. If you want to rewrite something smart guy try this.


Right now we are putting together the manual for a new kitchen appliance, and when we write.

"The local mineral content on the local water source may effect the lifetime of this item."
or
"The lifetime of this item may be adversely effected by use in hard water conditions."
or
"The formation of mineral deposits around the (can't share) of this item will prevent it from working properly. Use of this item in areas serviced by hard water will result in the formation of the afore mentioned mineral deposits. Regular cleaning of the ***** will prevent the formation of damaging mineral deposits."
or
"The **** should be inspected and cleaned regularly."

Later,
NCN Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
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Nocontrivedname's comment on 2009-04-08 06:35 PM
Echo and Valad you killed any discussion we could have had about the prose here by making this about whether or not one can even critize prose.

Echo if you think this work is perfect and with out need for revision then why ask for comments, Why not just say

I present a perfect work. Or you could say I present a work and I will except advice from a,b and c, but no one else. Then you bully poor little AR into an apology. Go to Comment
The Haven of Voices
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Black Jack Rackham's comment on 2010-11-11 07:24 AM


A good, solid effort, and I will dutifully avoid the whole 'prose' issue.  Instead, I'll point to my major difficulty with this.  That being the whole "no context" issue.  It takes me some time to get into what you are trying to talk about because I don't know that the Kiranti are a race.  Likewise the Daumar  don't show up for quite some time but they're somehow central to the point. 



What I am trying to say is there's really no context given for how this all fits together.  Lots of veiled references (like mentioning the earth that was) but no explanation for it all.



But like I said, good, solid effort and I can see a good diplomatic Bab 5 kind of campaign coming out of it.



Mark



PS though I have to say, I am REALLY curious to know if the Kiranti have some secret, long term, plan to get their enemies and allies to eliminate one another...


Go to Comment
Scorpio 2.4 Hovertank
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manfred's comment on 2009-03-24 03:50 PM
A fun tank indeed! It is finely balanced, packs quite a punch and goes down really fast if caught. Kudos for the opinions from the men of the field.

"With greater power comes greater explodability." Go to Comment
Scorpio 2.4 Hovertank
Items  (Other)   (Combat)
manfred's comment on 2009-03-24 07:50 PM
Exactly! Wouldn't it be boring if new versions of weapons were just better than anything else in all respects?

(I'm thinking here more of the metagaming/storytelling balancing and the zero-sum principle. The important thing is, he loaded it with weaknesses and downsides, but made precisely that fun.) Go to Comment
Scorpio 2.4 Hovertank
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Scrasamax's comment on 2009-03-23 10:03 PM
Nice work, Echo. Hovertanks are fun, the gun is hot and dangerous which I approve of. I can see these being used almost like Bic lighters, you toss em out and huzzah for the ones that make it back, but you dont count on any returning.

NCN - Your comment is completely tasteless and crass. Go to Comment
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